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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 07:16
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

And are you as aggressive with the brush as shown in the video?
Even more when needed.....I actually use one of those flat paint brushes like this...The brush part is not harsh does not scratch record. The bristles are short and get into grooves good. Long bristles will only lay flat on the record surface and not get into the grooves.
I use the brush in the video for the water rinse.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 09:42
Interesting.
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 09:47
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Anyone here chomping at the bit to get the Darkside of the Moon 50th Ann Vinyl?


Definitely not when you have the original press. Embarrassed

I have a ‘77 UK 5th pressing A9/B10, really nice!!



https://youtu.be/GgFyMSew3Rs

I think this man feels the same.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 11:07
^Dead Link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 14:02
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:




I have records with that pressing defect. But generally does not impede the sound much.

Sorry to jump into your thread guys- when i used to import a lot of US/ Canadian pressings i was under the impression that a lot of the visible 'textural' differences visible in US pressings were due to a difference in the manufacturing process; something to do with the temperature of the water used for cooling post-pressing and that it does not make much difference (if any) to the sound quality but put off lots of people in the European market. I had quite a lot of people either complaining or just concerned as they could see these surface 'defects' and i have always been at pains to point the fact that it doesnt generally affect the play-back. European and UK pressings had some pretty dodgy batches of vinyl during the 70's and used a fair amount of re-cycled material when needed.. but overall the consensus of opinion during the 70's and 80's (correct or not) was Best- Japan, next- Germany, next- Europe/ UK and Canada, then- USA and last- other Asian countries and Communist countries. Ive found over the years, lots of examples that de-bunk all that but it does seem that was how it was seen over here. About 25% of my collection is US pressings and overall they are easily comparable to what was available to elsewhere in the world.

Now, Sleeves... thats another matter..Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 14:43
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

Sorry to jump into your thread guys- when i used to import a lot of US/ Canadian pressings i was under the impression that a lot of the visible 'textural' differences visible in US pressings were due to a difference in the manufacturing process; something to do with the temperature of the water used for cooling post-pressing and that it does not make much difference (if any) to the sound quality but put off lots of people in the European market. I had quite a lot of people either complaining or just concerned as they could see these surface 'defects' and i have always been at pains to point the fact that it doesnt generally affect the play-back. European and UK pressings had some pretty dodgy batches of vinyl during the 70's and used a fair amount of re-cycled material when needed.. but overall the consensus of opinion during the 70's and 80's (correct or not) was Best- Japan, next- Germany, next- Europe/ UK and Canada, then- USA and last- other Asian countries and Communist countries. Ive found over the years, lots of examples that de-bunk all that but it does seem that was how it was seen over here. About 25% of my collection is US pressings and overall they are easily comparable to what was available to elsewhere in the world.

Now, Sleeves... thats another matter..Wink

This thread, like all others, is everybodys, and it's very good to hear your experiences. 

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 16:10
https://youtu.be/GgFyMSew3Rs
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 19:41
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:


IMAGES REMOVED FOR SPACE

I have records with that pressing defect. But generally does not impede the sound much.

Sorry to jump into your thread guys- when i used to import a lot of US/ Canadian pressings i was under the impression that a lot of the visible 'textural' differences visible in US pressings were due to a difference in the manufacturing process; something to do with the temperature of the water used for cooling post-pressing and that it does not make much difference (if any) to the sound quality but put off lots of people in the European market. I had quite a lot of people either complaining or just concerned as they could see these surface 'defects' and i have always been at pains to point the fact that it doesnt generally affect the play-back. European and UK pressings had some pretty dodgy batches of vinyl during the 70's and used a fair amount of re-cycled material when needed.. but overall the consensus of opinion during the 70's and 80's (correct or not) was Best- Japan, next- Germany, next- Europe/ UK and Canada, then- USA and last- other Asian countries and Communist countries. Ive found over the years, lots of examples that de-bunk all that but it does seem that was how it was seen over here. About 25% of my collection is US pressings and overall they are easily comparable to what was available to elsewhere in the world.

Now, Sleeves... thats another matter..Wink
I've spent the better part of the last 40 years in plastics and injection moulding. This is NOT a defect you want, on any product. In this particular case the defect presents itself as loud crackling/static like distortion. Like walking on dried leaves. And believe me, this album is clean. It's been both US'icly and manually deep groove cleaned...to no effect. These are in the surface, stresses from most likely, as mentioned above, poor cooling cycle and/or out of spec materials. This is the worse one I've ever seen.

Thanks for chiming in John.
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I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2023 at 20:19
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

This is NOT a defect you want
 
Especially if the reason you're buying vinyl is because you have superhuman hearing that can detect the 16 bit 44.1 kHz limitations of CD music. Tongue
 
A day or two ago, I was watching the video:
 
 
which mentioned (around the 3:50 mark) how crappy US vinyl is compared to other countries such as Canada and Japan.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 05:22
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Especially if the reason you're buying vinyl is because you have superhuman hearing that can detect the 16 bit 44.1 kHz limitations of CD music. Tongue

Sorry but I suppose, if you knew what 44.1 kHz sampling frequency means in the very high tones and overtones, you wouldn't talk about "superhuman hearing". Wink


Edited by David_D - April 03 2023 at 06:56
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JD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 08:48
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 09:38

^ The title of this video doesn't look promising concerning the quality of it. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 09:40
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

https://youtu.be/GgFyMSew3Rs

He is missing the 2003 30th anniversary version, which is easily one of the best. It was done by Kevin Gray and Doug Sax using the A2/B3 plates. This is the version I think I currently prefer, against my 5th UK pressing. The bottom end of the 2003 version is lush and deep where needed. Don't get me wrong the UK one I have is very good, I've never heard a '73 original UK pressing, all these guys call it the best. But you need about $2K minimum to find one. Ain't happin'.......



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 10:34

The best (inter-subjective) "truth" about analog vs digital would be big-scale statistics concerning audiophiles' comparative
experiences with both media, and what they think about them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 10:40
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Nothing technically wrong here. What is a bit messy is that he is talking about the digital capturing method against the vinyl playback medium. What he misses is the fact that the most common digital playback medium is the CD and it cannot go below 20Hz nor above 20KHz, whereas the vinyl medium can go below and above that.
The CD cannot hold that kind of frequency range so it should be described as a lossy medium due to redbook limitations. In fact both are a lossy medium in that the vinyl cannot go above about 80dB of dynamic range and the CD can get to about 92dB, but that is of less concern overall.
What is key for vinyl playback is the RIAA curve, which is why a phono preamp should be a focus on for getting the most accurate reproduction off the record.

I'm still trying to figure out that cartridge at the start of the video..WTH is that??? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 12:15
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Especially if the reason you're buying vinyl is because you have superhuman hearing that can detect the 16 bit 44.1 kHz limitations of CD music. Tongue

Sorry but I suppose, if you knew what 44.1 kHz sampling frequency means in the very high tones and overtones, you wouldn't talk about "superhuman hearing". Wink
 
I know what "44.1 kHz sampling frequency means in the very high tones and overtones". I suspect that many people who do not truly understand the mathematics behind this or the human physiology of hearing have a mistaken view of the importance of very high tones and overtones.
 
A sample frequency of 44100 Hz has a Nyquist frequency of 22050 Hz. This means that all frequencies above 22050 Hz must be removed or else there will be aliasing with frequencies above 22050 Hz folding back to below 22050 Hz. But 22050 Hz is somewhat above human hearing, which is limited to no more than about 20 kHz, decreasing with age. Thus, even if an analogue sound does contain frequencies above about 20 kHz, these will not be audible. This means that any periodic waveform of fundamental frequency greater than about 10 kHz will sound the same and like a sinusoidal waveform because all the overtones, which are greater than about 20 kHz, will be inaudible.
 
Another misunderstanding people have about digital is the view that the stepped waveform sounds different to the original analog waveform. If one takes the difference between the stepped digital waveform and the original analog waveform, the resulting waveform has a fundamental frequency of 44.1 kHz, and is therefore inaudible.
 
It should be noted that if signal frequencies are inaudible, then it is preferable that they not be present because these frequencies can produce distortion of the signals that are audible if the inaudible signals are substantial.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2023 at 12:45
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Especially if the reason you're buying vinyl is because you have superhuman hearing that can detect the 16 bit 44.1 kHz limitations of CD music. Tongue

Sorry but I suppose, if you knew what 44.1 kHz sampling frequency means in the very high tones and overtones, you wouldn't talk about "superhuman hearing". Wink
 
I know what "44.1 kHz sampling frequency means in the very high tones and overtones". I suspect that many people who do not truly understand the mathematics behind this or the human physiology of hearing have a mistaken view of the importance of very high tones and overtones.
 
A sample frequency of 44100 Hz has a Nyquist frequency of 22050 Hz. This means that all frequencies above 22050 Hz must be removed or else there will be aliasing with frequencies above 22050 Hz folding back to below 22050 Hz. But 22050 Hz is somewhat above human hearing, which is limited to no more than about 20 kHz, decreasing with age. Thus, even if an analogue sound does contain frequencies above about 20 kHz, these will not be audible. This means that any periodic waveform of fundamental frequency greater than about 10 kHz will sound the same and like a sinusoidal waveform because all the overtones, which are greater than about 20 kHz, will be inaudible.
 
Another misunderstanding people have about digital is the view that the stepped waveform sounds different to the original analog waveform. If one takes the difference between the stepped digital waveform and the original analog waveform, the resulting waveform has a fundamental frequency of 44.1 kHz, and is therefore inaudible.
 
It should be noted that if signal frequencies are inaudible, then it is preferable that they not be present because these frequencies can produce distortion of the signals that are audible if the inaudible signals are substantial.

Mathematically, this is all correct, but we don't listen to numbers. There is musical information above 20KHz, it is common knowledge that cymbals, percussion, brass instruments can reach 25-30KHz let alone some electronic instruments play higher. Frequencies as high as 80KHz have been cut to vinyl as well as low as 5Hz. 
Even though we don't "hear" anything this low or high what it does it gives us the full experience of the musical note, you get the full sustain of notes, nothing is cut off. 
That distortion that might be present in analog is so low that it really does not matter, it plays more havoc on digital, it will only show up with an o-scope analysis, but DAC performance can be affected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2023 at 03:57
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Especially if the reason you're buying vinyl is because you have superhuman hearing that can detect the 16 bit 44.1 kHz limitations of CD music. Tongue

How much experience do you have with listening to all-analog productions, Prophesy?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2023 at 07:34
This thread is getting interesting here. Now, now, we're all superhuman! Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2023 at 09:01
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

This thread is getting interesting here. Now, now, we're all superhuman! Embarrassed
It's all good.......It's good for these discussions it helps people understand a bit better the highly subjective nature of music reproduction. I don't like my music to be ones and zeros, but much of it is, nothing I can do about it.
Except look for all analog recordings of my favorite music.
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