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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 21:44
The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 11:16

I've become now enough fond of the whole The Lamb Lies Down.... so I will listen to the whole album 
which not least makes me happy for the reason that I can do it on the original UK LP release I've got 
instead of so far as a single album on CD. Tongue






Edited by David_D - October 07 2022 at 11:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 11:22
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 20:42
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.
I still have about 200 of my original LPs from back in the 70s and 80s, I did lose a lot in a couple of house moves, but I am slowly replacing them.
I have many originals that I don't feel the need to have one of the reissues, like Steely Dan Aja and Supertramp Crime and almost all of my EW&F records. They sound so fantastic I don't need one if the new reissues. I do have many reissues simply because the albums I have have been played to death. My Genesis originals are all pretty much veiled, a muffled sound due to bad mastering. The 2008 Nick Davis remixes are excellent, so I have all those. Rush MP with RL stamped both sides is absolutely KILLER!!!.....I try and only buy VG+ as a minimum, usually I can find VG++/NM and am happy. I have good record cleaning process including an inexpensive ultrasonic which has been a welcomed surprise, deep cleans my records.
I use a moving coil cartridge, at this point will never do without it, just pulls out so much more musical data and the details are cra-cra. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 20:43
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.


Yup.....Keep um clean and they sound amazing for many years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 05:24

Regarding "natural sound", I still think of the sound coming from analog audio as being more natural for the human
ears and brains than that from digital. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 05:30
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.

Yup.....Keep um clean and they sound amazing for many years.

Right, and take good care of the cartridge as well, and get a new one before worn too much.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 05:58
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.


Yup.....Keep um clean and they sound amazing for many years.


Right, and take good care of the cartridge as well, and get a new one before worn too much.

Hmmm... I cleaned my vinyl before every play, put them back in the sleeve after each play, changed cartridge often, took great care of my LP's, yet every one of them (over time) would have snap, crackle, pops, or background noise. Hell, even some new records were noisy. That was my experience with vinyl.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - October 08 2022 at 07:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 07:24

How many cassettes do you have, Grumpy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 08:44
^Curious why you ask this???

Maybe thirty mix tapes that I haven't heard in over thirty years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 08:57
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Curious why you ask this???

Maybe thirty mix tapes that I haven't heard in over thirty years.

Because you've written about Nakamichi Dragon in a very positive way in this thread , so I've been thinking that cassettes might be your main medium.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 10:50
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.

I have many that sound good but many that have been worn over the years.....I'm 71 so vinyl from the old days wears out and any decent system you are going to hear some noise. Plus many were simply made sh*tty back then.
I play both cd and vinyl..it depends on the cd and the piece of vinyl...period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 10:58
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.
I still have about 200 of my original LPs from back in the 70s and 80s, I did lose a lot in a couple of house moves, but I am slowly replacing them.
I have many originals that I don't feel the need to have one of the reissues, like Steely Dan Aja and Supertramp Crime and almost all of my EW&F records. They sound so fantastic I don't need one if the new reissues. I do have many reissues simply because the albums I have have been played to death. My Genesis originals are all pretty much veiled, a muffled sound due to bad mastering. The 2008 Nick Davis remixes are excellent, so I have all those. Rush MP with RL stamped both sides is absolutely KILLER!!!.....I try and only buy VG+ as a minimum, usually I can find VG++/NM and am happy. I have good record cleaning process including an inexpensive ultrasonic which has been a welcomed surprise, deep cleans my records.
I use a moving coil cartridge, at this point will never do without it, just pulls out so much more musical data and the details are cra-cra. 


My friend Steve is really into high end stuff,,.,,I have a low/midlevel system that only cost me about 1,500 total...for table (Denon/ Shure cartridge), speakers (JAMO), recever (Onkyo), cd player (Sony). I can hear background noise on many lp's I have because they are original vinyl that was either made poor to begin with or have become worn over time by mishandling of others.
I don't buy audiophile vinyl...I'm too cheap...but I enjoy buying originals of obscure psych and prog for the collectable reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 10:59
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.


Yup.....Keep um clean and they sound amazing for many years.

Yes..if they are in good shape to begin with Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 11:03
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I surely play more vinyl than CDs, and I have a lot of old original vinyl, played a lot of times, without background noise - it's a matter of taking enough good care of it.


Yup.....Keep um clean and they sound amazing for many years.


Right, and take good care of the cartridge as well, and get a new one before worn too much.

Hmmm... I cleaned my vinyl before every play, put them back in the sleeve after each play, changed cartridge often, took great care of my LP's, yet every one of them (over time) would have snap, crackle, pops, or background noise. Hell, even some new records were noisy. That was my experience with vinyl.

And you are right...vinyl is touchy that way. It depends on the quality of the vinyl and the quality of the cd.


One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 11:25
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Curious why you ask this???

Maybe thirty mix tapes that I haven't heard in over thirty years.


I've made some 300 Maxell XL-II S (C-90) over some 20 years (75-95), most compilations of a few artistes' weaker albums...
Most of them were off vinyl source, before I discarded the albums to Vortex Records (downtown Toronto)... but the later ones (not many) were made from CD. If I continued with Tapes, it's because I didn't have a CD deck in my car until 98. Then I had a spell (15 months) where I bought from my FiL a Xantia that still had a tape deck, so I took them out and played them until I got rid of the car once I had my new Saab.


XL-IIS were the only cassettes that I trusted - never lost one of them inside a tape deck, unlike TEAC, TDK, Sony, Memorex or (the worst) BASF or Phillips. And they sounded as close as possible to metal-tape cassettes - so I never made the extra financial effort either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 12:26
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I've become now enough fond of the whole The Lamb Lies Down.... so I will listen to the whole album 
which not least makes me happy for the reason that I can do it on the original UK LP release I've got 
instead of so far as a single album on CD. Tongue

The Lamb is still a double-disc album on CD - at least on the version I have anyway. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 13:18
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I've become now enough fond of the whole The Lamb Lies Down.... so I will listen to the whole album 
which not least makes me happy for the reason that I can do it on the original UK LP release I've got 
instead of so far as a single album on CD. Tongue

The Lamb is still a double-disc album on CD - at least on the version I have anyway. Smile

Yes, but by the help of my programmable CD-player, I've skipped some tracks on both discs, and listened to disc 1 as "side 1" and to disc 2 as "side 2", and thus listened to it as single album.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 13:44
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I've made some 300 Maxell XL-II S (C-90) over some 20 years (75-95), most compilations of a few artistes' weaker albums...

In the years 1975-88, cassettes were my main medium, and most of them also recorded by myself from vinyl source. In 1988, when I became an audiophile and decided only to play LPs from then on, I gave all my cassettes (about 100) to a friend. But today, I wish that I kept them as a memory and to know exactly which albums I listened to in those years, and especially in the 70's.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 20:21
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

The only person I know that plays vinyl more than cds is a friend with that $25,000 system mentioned above. He even has a moving coil cartridge....he only plays audiophile vinyl which I think Catcher also does. He will play old vinyl if it's mint. He can't abide background noise which you will get on all old original vinyl.
I still have about 200 of my original LPs from back in the 70s and 80s, I did lose a lot in a couple of house moves, but I am slowly replacing them.
I have many originals that I don't feel the need to have one of the reissues, like Steely Dan Aja and Supertramp Crime and almost all of my EW&F records. They sound so fantastic I don't need one if the new reissues. I do have many reissues simply because the albums I have have been played to death. My Genesis originals are all pretty much veiled, a muffled sound due to bad mastering. The 2008 Nick Davis remixes are excellent, so I have all those. Rush MP with RL stamped both sides is absolutely KILLER!!!.....I try and only buy VG+ as a minimum, usually I can find VG++/NM and am happy. I have good record cleaning process including an inexpensive ultrasonic which has been a welcomed surprise, deep cleans my records.
I use a moving coil cartridge, at this point will never do without it, just pulls out so much more musical data and the details are cra-cra. 


My friend Steve is really into high end stuff,,.,,I have a low/midlevel system that only cost me about 1,500 total...for table (Denon/ Shure cartridge), speakers (JAMO), recever (Onkyo), cd player (Sony). I can hear background noise on many lp's I have because they are original vinyl that was either made poor to begin with or have become worn over time by mishandling of others.
I don't buy audiophile vinyl...I'm too cheap...but I enjoy buying originals of obscure psych and prog for the collectable reasons.
The main reason I remain with a MC cartridge is the stylus is a microridge line contact type versus an elliptical. Microridge, microline, shibata type are fine line stylus and dig deeper in the groove where the surface noise you are hearing does not exist. All my records from back in the day sound so much better, as I'm not picking much if any of the surface noise. These MC type stylus read a larger area of the groove walls..
Shure carts are very good!! When you need a new one check out the Nagaoka line, for me their MM carts are some of the best, if you can get a MP200. 

Here is a very basic description of different cartridge stylus:

Stylus Types

Spherical

Spherical, or conical, is the most common stylus type and are the least expensive. It looks a bit like the tip of a ballpoint pen up close. Because of their relatively large radius, spherical styli trace less of the smaller groove modulations that represent higher frequencies. Some claim spherical styli produce the most wear on records because the contact area of the diamond is restricted to two specific points, while contenders claim that this actually produces less wear. 

Elliptical 

The next most common stylus type is elliptical, or bi-radial. Elliptical makes contact across a larger area of the groove wall due to its dual radii. This allows for more precise tracking, improved frequency response (especially highs), improved phase response, and lower distortion, particularly in hard-to-track inner grooves. These types of styli usually wear a bit faster, and you’ll need to pay attention to the cartridge and tonearm alignment for best results.

Hyperelliptical 

Hyperelliptical, also known as shibata, fine line, or stereohedron. As the name suggests, this type is the next stage of evolution of the elliptical stylus, sharpening the design to make greater contact with the record grooves. When properly aligned, this stylus offers excellent high-frequency performance, longer tip life, improved tracking, and lower record wear. Due to their advanced design and difficulty to manufacture, they’re more expensive than the elliptical stylus.

Micro-ridge

The micro-ridge, or microline stylus is the most advanced of the four styli types. The computer designed tip comes close to the shape of a cutting stylus used to produce master discs. Their multilevel “ridge” shape allows this stylus to give the best high-frequency performance with extended record and stylus life (when aligned correctly). They’re very difficult to manufacture and very expensive.



Edited by Catcher10 - October 08 2022 at 20:26
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