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Wintertree View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wintertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2021 at 21:17
I don't mind people not liking my music,but accusing me of plagiarizing Pink Floyd isn't OK. That review needs to be taken down. Does the author of the review even know what plagiarizing means? This is a very serious accusation.

Andrew Laitres
The Winter Tree

Edited by Wintertree - April 08 2021 at 21:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2021 at 23:44
I suppose that the review is already gone, but it has made me curious about your music. As a PF addict, whatever sounds similar to my favorite band is welcome. I will surely give an ear to it.

Of course I agree with you: plagiarizing is a very bad wording which implies also the possibility of a lawsuit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hiram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 00:41
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's talking about this review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1034695

If that's the review in question, English isn't the reviewer's native tongue so it might be just a bad choice of words. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 00:48
^That sounds like a reasonable take imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 00:50

"RICK WRIGHT's vibe" sounds like a good reason for listening to the album. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 01:02
I've given a quick listen to the samples on the Winter Tree website. If I should look for similarities what I have tried is closer to Marillion than to Pink Floyd. I have to say that I like what I have listened to, and there are bands like Eloy and Starcastle that are much more derivative respect to their influencers. Even Birth of Liquid Plejades from TD's ZEIT sounds like an alternative version of Saucerful of Secrets
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 02:27
Originally posted by Hiram Hiram wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's talking about this review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1034695

If that's the review in question, English isn't the reviewer's native tongue so it might be just a bad choice of words. 

Even if it is only a bad choice of words, the review needs to be either edited or removed. It really should not stay on the site as it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 02:49
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Hiram Hiram wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's talking about this review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1034695

If that's the review in question, English isn't the reviewer's native tongue so it might be just a bad choice of words. 

Even if it is only a bad choice of words, the review needs to be either edited or removed. It really should not stay on the site as it is.



It was written in 2013. The good ship Earth has been spinning around the big red ball in the sky completely unaffected by that review ever since. Most people on said planet have never heard of them. I certainly hadn’t, and I somehow doubt that Messrs Waters and Co. will be reaching for the services of Messrs Sue, Grabbit, and Runne if they were ever made aware of the alleged plagiarism.

It is a very poor choice of words, granted, but I think removal would be a shocking overreaction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 02:52
As a matter of the greatest coincidence, it is Apps birthday today. 

I might have some fun later Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 03:39
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Hiram Hiram wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's talking about this review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1034695

If that's the review in question, English isn't the reviewer's native tongue so it might be just a bad choice of words. 

Even if it is only a bad choice of words, the review needs to be either edited or removed. It really should not stay on the site as it is.



It was written in 2013. The good ship Earth has been spinning around the big red ball in the sky completely unaffected by that review ever since. Most people on said planet have never heard of them. I certainly hadn’t, and I somehow doubt that Messrs Waters and Co. will be reaching for the services of Messrs Sue, Grabbit, and Runne if they were ever made aware of the alleged plagiarism.

It is a very poor choice of words, granted, but I think removal would be a shocking overreaction.

I too think it would be a shocking overreaction, but I am unaware of how easy it is to edit someone else’s post, if this member is not around to do it themselves. Editing the review is definitely preferable, but if it is unable to be edited, then (shocking overreaction or not), I think removal does make sense.

I’m not sure why you even suggest Waters and Co. might sue, because that is hardly an issue at all - particularly when it seems potentially likely that the author never alleged plagiarism at all, but merely used the wrong word in translation.

But the amount of time that has passed is somewhat irrelevant. If something is wrong, and something can be done about it, then it should be done. As a particularly extreme example, if a murder occurred in 2013, but was found out only in 2021, you would expect repercussions.

This review has been brought up, rightly so, by the musician who is being accused of plagiarism. Does it matter that they have only discovered this review long after the fact? No? Are they being accused of something they haven’t done? Well I haven’t listened to the album, but I suspect at most I might hear inspiration and derivation, but no plagiarism. Having been the victim of being accused of something I’ve not done, I completely empathise. It is not nice to have such accusations thrown at oneself. I too, would be calling for this review to be edited or removed, if it were my music that were being maligned in this fashion.

Oh and happy birthday. I look forward to the fun you have. Always enjoyable to read.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 03:49
^ Well, it is clearly a matter of emphasis, and we shall agree to disagree. My own feeling is that there is quite a difference between an unsolved murder and a mistake in English affecting a band who, with the greatest possible respect, hardly anyone has heard of, although if it can be edited to state “influenced by”, then fine.

The reviewer (and it is his birthday today, not mine, but thanks for the very kind words) hasn’t been about for a while, but he was very highly respected. I am, of course, extremely curious to listen to this lot now, and will do so after the weekly shop this afternoon (yep, we know how to live!).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 03:58
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

^ Well, it is clearly a matter of emphasis, and we shall agree to disagree. My own feeling is that there is quite a difference between an unsolved murder and a mistake in English affecting a band who, with the greatest possible respect, hardly anyone has heard of, although if it can be edited to state “influenced by”, then fine.

The reviewer (and it is his birthday today, not mine, but thanks for the very kind words) hasn’t been about for a while, but he was very highly respected. I am, of course, extremely curious to listen to this lot now, and will do so after the weekly shop this afternoon (yep, we know how to live!).

I was aware it was the reviewer’s birthday, not yours. But I am happy to wish you a very happy Un-birthday! 🎉 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wintertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 05:02
Today is the release of the new Nad Sylvan album "Spiritus Mundi" in which I co wrote with Nad and performed on throughout. I suspect I will be much less obscure on the prog scene soon.
I don't mind one thinking my albums aren't very good and that I'm not a good songwriter, but the word "plagiarizing" needs to go.
Thanks!
Andrew Laitres
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 05:17
Send lawyers, guns, and money. Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 05:19
This review for how bad can it be, has raised some interest about your works, at least for me, I honestly like the few I have listened to and I haven't heard a so big connection with Pink Floyd.

I'm not an admin and I can't decide about the reviews. I just want to say that it has given you a sort of non-voluntary marketing advertisement. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 05:31
^ Yes, very much so. I like the little that I've heard and look forward to checking out more of this "new" group's output. Smile 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 05:36
My own 2 cents, for what they're worth... It's clear to me, as a non-native speaker of English, and occasional translator/interpreter, that the author of the review meant something else - such as "imitating", which does not have the same potential for legal trouble that "plagiarizing" has. However, that's the word he used (misspelling it as well), and I agree with the artist and other users that it needs to go. The rest of the review - which is not bad at all, in purely formal terms - should remain as it is.

Not having heard the album in question, I don't know how similar the music is to that of PF. However, I can tell you that in my reviewing days I've come across albums that sounded so similar to another band/artist as to be virtually indistinguishable. However, I don't believe you can accuse anyone of actual plagiarism unless another work is actually reproduced word-for-word (or, in this case, note-for-note).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 05:46
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

My own 2 cents, for what they're worth... It's clear to me, as a non-native speaker of English, and occasional translator/interpreter, that the author of the review meant something else - such as "imitating", which does not have the same potential for legal trouble that "plagiarizing" has. However, that's the word he used (misspelling it as well), and I agree with the artist and other users that it needs to go. The rest of the review - which is not bad at all, in purely formal terms - should remain as it is.

Not having heard the album in question, I don't know how similar the music is to that of PF. However, I can tell you that in my reviewing days I've come across albums that sounded so similar to another band/artist as to be virtually indistinguishable. However, I don't believe you can accuse anyone of actual plagiarism unless another work is actually reproduced word-for-word (or, in this case, note-for-note).
I agree Raff. Sounding like an artist is not the same as plagerism. I've dealt a lot with this phenomenon when I did A&R work for Chrysilas Records, amongst others. Legal problems were never the issue, just the "crime" of sounding like a clone of another, and in many cases, well known artist.

Edited by SteveG - April 09 2021 at 05:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wintertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 06:07
I loved Pink Floyd as a kid but never set out to copy them in any way . I like simple structures and atmospheric sonics. My influences are legion and varied, from Nick Drake to Jon Hassell. I NEVER sit down to work on a song and think " Hmmm, I think I will make this sound just like Pink Floyd". I just write what I feel.
I find being accused of plagiarizing another artist vey insulting and very serious.

Edited by Wintertree - April 09 2021 at 06:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2021 at 06:15
No one here, save the album reviewer, is even suggesting that you sound like Floyd. We are only using that comparison as an example in our discussion. That said, it's still a subjective opinion and the reviewer is entitled to it. The use of the word plagerism is the problem, as it denotes an objective legal opinion as opposed to a subjective artistic opinion.

Edited by SteveG - April 09 2021 at 06:36
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