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Wintertree
Forum Newbie Joined: April 08 2021 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I don't mind people not liking my music,but accusing me of plagiarizing Pink Floyd isn't OK. That review needs to be taken down. Does the author of the review even know what plagiarizing means? This is a very serious accusation.
Andrew Laitres The Winter Tree Edited by Wintertree - April 08 2021 at 21:18 |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14122 |
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I suppose that the review is already gone, but it has made me curious about your music. As a PF addict, whatever sounds similar to my favorite band is welcome. I will surely give an ear to it. Of course I agree with you: plagiarizing is a very bad wording which implies also the possibility of a lawsuit. |
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Hiram
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 30 2009 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 2084 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's talking about this review: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1034695
If that's the review in question, English isn't the reviewer's native tongue so it might be just a bad choice of words.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
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^That sounds like a reasonable take imho.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14122 |
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"RICK WRIGHT's vibe" sounds like a good reason for listening to the album.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14122 |
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I've given a quick listen to the samples on the Winter Tree website. If I should look for similarities what I have tried is closer to Marillion than to Pink Floyd. I have to say that I like what I have listened to, and there are bands like Eloy and Starcastle that are much more derivative respect to their influencers. Even Birth of Liquid Plejades from TD's ZEIT sounds like an alternative version of Saucerful of Secrets
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Even if it is only a bad choice of words, the review needs to be either edited or removed. It really should not stay on the site as it is. |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13634 |
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It was written in 2013. The good ship Earth has been spinning around the big red ball in the sky completely unaffected by that review ever since. Most people on said planet have never heard of them. I certainly hadn’t, and I somehow doubt that Messrs Waters and Co. will be reaching for the services of Messrs Sue, Grabbit, and Runne if they were ever made aware of the alleged plagiarism. It is a very poor choice of words, granted, but I think removal would be a shocking overreaction.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13634 |
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As a matter of the greatest coincidence, it is Apps birthday today.
I might have some fun later
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I too think it would be a shocking overreaction, but I am unaware of how easy it is to edit someone else’s post, if this member is not around to do it themselves. Editing the review is definitely preferable, but if it is unable to be edited, then (shocking overreaction or not), I think removal does make sense. I’m not sure why you even suggest Waters and Co. might sue, because that is hardly an issue at all - particularly when it seems potentially likely that the author never alleged plagiarism at all, but merely used the wrong word in translation. But the amount of time that has passed is somewhat irrelevant. If something is wrong, and something can be done about it, then it should be done. As a particularly extreme example, if a murder occurred in 2013, but was found out only in 2021, you would expect repercussions. This review has been brought up, rightly so, by the musician who is being accused of plagiarism. Does it matter that they have only discovered this review long after the fact? No? Are they being accused of something they haven’t done? Well I haven’t listened to the album, but I suspect at most I might hear inspiration and derivation, but no plagiarism. Having been the victim of being accused of something I’ve not done, I completely empathise. It is not nice to have such accusations thrown at oneself. I too, would be calling for this review to be edited or removed, if it were my music that were being maligned in this fashion. Oh and happy birthday. I look forward to the fun you have. Always enjoyable to read. |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13634 |
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^ Well, it is clearly a matter of emphasis, and we shall agree to disagree. My own feeling is that there is quite a difference between an unsolved murder and a mistake in English affecting a band who, with the greatest possible respect, hardly anyone has heard of, although if it can be edited to state “influenced by”, then fine.
The reviewer (and it is his birthday today, not mine, but thanks for the very kind words) hasn’t been about for a while, but he was very highly respected. I am, of course, extremely curious to listen to this lot now, and will do so after the weekly shop this afternoon (yep, we know how to live!).
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I was aware it was the reviewer’s birthday, not yours. But I am happy to wish you a very happy Un-birthday! 🎉 |
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Wintertree
Forum Newbie Joined: April 08 2021 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Today is the release of the new Nad Sylvan album "Spiritus Mundi" in which I co wrote with Nad and performed on throughout. I suspect I will be much less obscure on the prog scene soon.
I don't mind one thinking my albums aren't very good and that I'm not a good songwriter, but the word "plagiarizing" needs to go. Thanks! Andrew Laitres |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20609 |
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Send lawyers, guns, and money.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14122 |
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This review for how bad can it be, has raised some interest about your works, at least for me, I honestly like the few I have listened to and I haven't heard a so big connection with Pink Floyd. I'm not an admin and I can't decide about the reviews. I just want to say that it has given you a sort of non-voluntary marketing advertisement. |
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20609 |
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^ Yes, very much so. I like the little that I've heard and look forward to checking out more of this "new" group's output.
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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My own 2 cents, for what they're worth... It's clear to me, as a non-native speaker of English, and occasional translator/interpreter, that the author of the review meant something else - such as "imitating", which does not have the same potential for legal trouble that "plagiarizing" has. However, that's the word he used (misspelling it as well), and I agree with the artist and other users that it needs to go. The rest of the review - which is not bad at all, in purely formal terms - should remain as it is. Not having heard the album in question, I don't know how similar the music is to that of PF. However, I can tell you that in my reviewing days I've come across albums that sounded so similar to another band/artist as to be virtually indistinguishable. However, I don't believe you can accuse anyone of actual plagiarism unless another work is actually reproduced word-for-word (or, in this case, note-for-note).
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20609 |
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Edited by SteveG - April 09 2021 at 05:48 |
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Wintertree
Forum Newbie Joined: April 08 2021 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I loved Pink Floyd as a kid but never set out to copy them in any way . I like simple structures and atmospheric sonics. My influences are legion and varied, from Nick Drake to Jon Hassell. I NEVER sit down to work on a song and think " Hmmm, I think I will make this sound just like Pink Floyd". I just write what I feel.
I find being accused of plagiarizing another artist vey insulting and very serious. Edited by Wintertree - April 09 2021 at 06:10 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20609 |
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No one here, save the album reviewer, is even suggesting that you sound like Floyd. We are only using that comparison as an example in our discussion. That said, it's still a subjective opinion and the reviewer is entitled to it. The use of the word plagerism is the problem, as it denotes an objective legal opinion as opposed to a subjective artistic opinion.
Edited by SteveG - April 09 2021 at 06:36 |
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