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manofmystery View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 14:40
^ Yes, this is true, as well


Time always wins.
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 15:24
Like I was telling Teo on FB. I think we do need a minimum wage for our current situation.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this:

I know the minimum wage is inflationary and has at least a mild negative impact on employment, hurting small business the worst, but it seems draconian to end the min wage when we have a Fed that continually inflates our money.

I'd be 100% in support of abolishing the min wage if we had no fed.

Until that happens, is it really just to abolish it?

Edit: Also ideally I'd like less taxes on lower earners (payroll, property) and more free trade to lower prices.



Edited by JJLehto - April 11 2012 at 15:25
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 15:39
I actually disagree that a minimum wage necessarily leads to inflation.

What does the minimum wage accomplish Brian? Why does the inflationary landscape make any difference?
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 16:15
If you are earning less money, (which I know is your choice) but inflation is constantly increasing seems like a bad thing.
Maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically.

I'm sure there's other factors to take into account, remember I never gave it anymore thought than "the minimum wage is good and removing it would send a trillion people into poverty" Embarrassed
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 16:31
If your income is fixed at x, then when inflation hits you are making less money. If your income is fixed at y>x, then when inflation hits you are making less money. I was wondering why that non-distinction makes it more necessary in the face of inflation?


Any benefit of the policy is negated by the unemployment it causes and the fact that the minimum wage rate is set below market wages in most cases.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 16:48
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


I know the minimum wage is inflationary and has at least a mild negative impact on employment, hurting small business the worst, but it seems draconian to end the min wage when we have a Fed that continually inflates our money.




It would be disastrous to end minimum wage immediately.  You'd have to get rid of it as it came- in baby steps.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2012 at 21:47
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

If your income is fixed at x, then when inflation hits you are making less money. If your income is fixed at y>x, then when inflation hits you are making less money. I was wondering why that non-distinction makes it more necessary in the face of inflation?


Any benefit of the policy is negated by the unemployment it causes and the fact that the minimum wage rate is set below market wages in most cases.

This is the case in richer and wealthier Northeastern states such as Massachusetts. 8 dollars a hour here is not the same as 7.25 in another state. It is far less and often wages are at below market prices.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2012 at 14:49
I enjoyed this quote from my reading today.

Originally posted by Dar Odrade Dar Odrade wrote:

But oh, the perils of leadership in a species so anxious to be told what to do. How little they knew of what they created by their demands. Leaders made mistakes. And those mistakes, amplified by the numbers who followed without questioning, moved inevitably toward great disasters.



Edited by Equality 7-2521 - April 13 2012 at 14:50
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 07:48
I was reading an article the other day, which I incidentally cannot find now, on organ pricing on the black market. Anyway, this just opens the question. How do you guys feel about the organ market? Should it be legal to sell organs?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 10:28
Yes, if they are your organs. How the hell does one acquire organs to sell as a third party? Maybe if somebody leaves you organs as inheritance? Somebody working at hospitals and morgues can't just take organs of dead bodies and sell them, I wouldn't agree with that. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 11:14
Well if you are acquiring organs from someone, it would stand that there would be third parties who could sell them by definition right?

Person A has a kidney. He wants to sell it. He sells it to person B. Person B has two functioning kidneys and bought it to turn a profit. He sells it to person C who then implants it in person D.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 11:27
Yes but this middle man approach could lead to ugly things. Now of course, everything can lead to ugly things. That doesn't mean we have to make everything illegal. When third parties can sell organs bought from first parties, I would only fear these organs being obtained by dubious means, including violent ones. And then to fix all of this it would be said that this would need to be regulated (which probably would be true) and then you'll also have a black market of organs. 

Well, if I'm not wrong such a market probably already exists today. Allowing selling of organs in the open couldn't hurt. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 11:44
It's a rather vibrant market today.

I agree that it certainly makes the industry seem more dubious at face value. However, would it be unreasonable to have a company which safely harvests and stores the organs before selling them to hospitals? Vertical integration would seem to make sense between the two industries, but that's not to say the market would develop like that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 11:54
It would be better if sais companies existed of course. That would also probably guarantee much better results in every way, including the condition of the organs themselves, and would, as every legalization usually carries with it, somewhat reduce the impact, need, and profitability, of the black market. And this is a case when I don't even see much that religious objectors could argue against. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 12:11
Objectors will claim exploitation of the lower class where poor people are inhumanely forced to sell off vital body parts to buy food for their starving children so that an old rich alcoholic can have live a few more years drinking vodka martinis and cheating on his wife.

It would create a culture of consumerism with nothing held sacred. Organs which would have been previously donated will now be sold to the highest bidder. Scarcity once solved by means of need will be settled in a purely rich take all game. The rich will continue to get richer, this time literally off the bodies of the poor.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 12:26
That's an exact view of the objections that would be made, you are right. Sadly, at the beginning at least, this new market would probably be out of reach to most people anyway, at least as purchasers. And what you described could happen today too, only under the table. What stops a dying rich man from going to a poor one and telling him "hey, donate me one of your kidneys and I'll make you rich"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 13:44
It certainly occurs currently on the black market. I think the criticisms merit a thorough retort though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 19:38
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I was reading an article the other day, which I incidentally cannot find now, on organ pricing on the black market. Anyway, this just opens the question. How do you guys feel about the organ market? Should it be legal to sell organs?


Funny, just a couple of days ago I was reading an article from the Cato Institute on just that (well they touched upon it).
It's one of those issues you need to "get over" but when you do, I'd support it.
It's to the benefit of everyone, especially those on those humongous wait lists.

If you are willing to part with an organ, or know you have little time left, why not make some money off it...you could give it to your loved ones, use it to help with medical bills or whatever.

Also there's a black market for organs...and like any black market that means a legit market has been suppressed, why not legalize it and put it between the donor and receiver? Instead of shady ass people who are selling organs on the black market.





Edited by JJLehto - April 19 2012 at 19:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2012 at 19:51
The criticism will be: omg people will go around stealing organs and selling them, and I suppose that could happen but more of a sci fi horror scenario.

Besides it's not like you'd be doing in back alleys, if I say "OK Pat I will sell you my liver" and he agrees it can be done at a hospital, things signed..it can be legit. There'd be no middle man.

Honestly, I try to avoid looking at the "moral" arguments but this time there is one. Not sure how "right" it is to have something like organs being used as profit, and Pat brings up a good point...I assumed it'd be 2 people involved but a whole market could develop from it.
An intriguing issue...I'm not so sure actually.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 12:21

Going to see Dr. Paul in Philly tomorrow, Equality?  I'll be at the Pittsburgh event tonight.



Time always wins.
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