Political discussion thread

Just to clarify my position as I believe Teo was talking about me when he mentioned "balance".  My position is that there must be a balance between private power and public power, not a balance between right and left.  In fact, I find the appropriate balance between private and public falls somewhere between the center and the extreme left.  So my "balance" should not be taken as a centrist approach, it is most definitely a leftist one.

Dean wrote:   What is extreme is obviously measured relatively, but not relative to the view of the majority but to the view of the opposing extreme position (otherwise the centrist view is a meaningless term) - if the point of relative measurement was the majority view then that in itself would become the opposing extreme position, making the arithmetic centrist position someway between the two again, but that still isn't a true representation of a centrist position.    In most cases two opposing extremes are mutually exclusive to each side, the centrist view is to say there are good and bad points in both extremes and the solution is not a wishy-washy, watered-down compromise but a viable balance of both.

You assume a linear ordering why?

Well, even from a linear perspective what I said just commenting on the supposed "extremes" of communism and fascism, if the relevant relative factor is size and power of the state, both are rather similar, versus the opposite "extreme" that would be an stateless society closer to anarcho-capitalism or related. Well, true communism could be regarded as the opposite of fascism (and even of its previous stage, socialism) since it purports the dissapearance of the state. But we all know in reality that the dictatorship of the proletariat was quite different. That's all I was saying in relation to that, this time no reference to TheDoc .

As Logan understood my words, I also said that the center being always desirable is not the case and his points on the discussion I am in total agreeance with.

The T wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Dean wrote:   What is extreme is obviously measured relatively, but not relative to the view of the majority but to the view of the opposing extreme position (otherwise the centrist view is a meaningless term) - if the point of relative measurement was the majority view then that in itself would become the opposing extreme position, making the arithmetic centrist position someway between the two again, but that still isn't a true representation of a centrist position.    In most cases two opposing extremes are mutually exclusive to each side, the centrist view is to say there are good and bad points in both extremes and the solution is not a wishy-washy, watered-down compromise but a viable balance of both.  You assume a linear ordering why? Also, this. But if you set a reference point I guess you can create a linear relation can't you?

I have no idea what "linear ordering" means in this instance or whether it is even applicable. Left, Right and Centre are a naming convention and nothing more, they do not depict a dimensional spacial geometry nor can logic be applied to them - centrism is not an centre-point between two extremes on a linear scale. Centrists do not adopt a proportion of each opposing extreme's ideology based upon some linear/ratiometric relationship between them.

The center also shifts over time and differs between regions.  I would say our center as it stands now is much further to the right than it was say 40 years ago or than it is in Europe.  

Equality 7-2521 wrote: My point being that the convention is misleading, narrow, and erroneous and is the source of confusion regarding the naming of something extreme or centrist.  You talked about an arithmetic centrist position, and one position being between another. I don't feel like these things hold in general and they do more to obscure discussion than to enhance.

Then we agree and I phrased it very poorly.

The Doctor wrote: The center also shifts over time and differs between regions.  I would say our center as it stands now is much further to the right than it was say 40 years ago or than it is in Europe.

That was highlighted during Romney's recent visit to Europe (dubbed in the press as Romneyshambles and the 'European Disaster Tour') - the UK Conservatives align themselves more with your Democrats than they do with your Conservatives - this is in stark contrast to the Thatcher/Regan years.

The word "extremist" in America is used to paint someone as a boogeyman.  It's almost a useless term anymore.

I got a political postcard (from Florida) painting a liberal candidate as being "extreme" on abortion and gay marriage.  What does that even mean?  Is the conservative group that funded this ad implying that they would like a "moderate" approach to abortion and gay marriage?

The word "extreme" is used to discredit a position without actually having to talk about it.

There are other such words.


Edited by Epignosis - November 01 2012 at 06:39

Dean wrote: The Doctor wrote: The center also shifts over time and differs between regions.  I would say our center as it stands now is much further to the right than it was say 40 years ago or than it is in Europe.   That was highlighted during Romney's recent visit to Europe (dubbed in the press as Romneyshambles and the 'European Disaster Tour') - the UK Conservatives align themselves more with your Democrats than they do with your Conservatives - this is in stark contrast to the Thatcher/Regan years.

And yet here, a large percentage of the population views Obama as a raving, foaming at the mouth socialist.  Go figure.  Ah, to have been born in Europe.