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JLocke 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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 Posted: November 04 2010 at 20:06 |
 Garion81 wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Are we really saying "We should legalise marijuana because alcohol is worse" because that would seem to be an argument for criminalising alcohol, not for legalising marijuana.
Look, I know that marijuana isn't all bad. But the thing is if you give people an inch they take a mile and anyone who doesn't think that's generally true must have been living in some other dimension. Legalising marijuana is quite potentially a foot in the door for more serious problems. |
Are you saying that if isn't that bad that reasonable people can't make up their own minds about its use? Prohibition never works. In the prop 19 campaign in California the opposition used things like people will be driving under its influence, people will go to work stoned, oh and I guess all school bus drivers must be pot smokers because what if they came to work high. That was the number one fear tactic. So all the school bus drivers are just waiting for this to pass so they can light up waiting for your kids to get out of school. Here is the fallacy of such arguments it is already happening. People already drive stoned and go to work stoned. Kids go to school stoned. We aren't stopping it now. But if it were legal and controlled and regulated like alcohol I think it would be less that the opposition thinks. For one it would make it much harder for kids to buy it. It doesn't mean a company has to hire you because it is legal and if you have pot in your blood any more than don't have to if you have alcohol. The point is It is about one group of people acting like they can control other peoples behavior when they have no real evidence that these things would happen. |
These are the same arguments I posed to him, and he skimmed right over as if they didn't even exist. Don't expect a straight response from him.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:24 |
People definitely will go to work stoned on occasion. Not all the time very day but it' would certainly happen here and there. Outside of work, they will drive stoned or perform potentially dangerous tasks stoned frequently. And one of these days, if not several times a month, it WILL result in fatalities. This is why I cannot buy the "it doesn't harm other people" argument and never will.
Secondly, "I'm only hurting myself". So suicide is AOK with you or what? Should society stand by shuffling its feet while individuals poison themselves?
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:30 |
Textbook wrote:
People definitely will go to work stoned on occasion. Not all the time very day but it' would certainly happen here and there. Outside of work, they will drive stoned or perform potentially dangerous tasks stoned frequently. And one of these days, if not several times a month, it WILL result in fatalities. This is why I cannot buy the "it doesn't harm other people" argument and never will.
Secondly, "I'm only hurting myself". So suicide is AOK with you or what? Should society stand by shuffling its feet while individuals poison themselves? |
There are laws and workplace regulations that provide for punishments for coming to work on alcohol, as it should be with pot. Also, your instance on using the word poison for smoking marijuana in a recurring source of joy to me.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:32 |
stonebeard wrote:
Textbook wrote:
People definitely will go to work stoned on occasion. Not all the time very day but it' would certainly happen here and there. Outside of work, they will drive stoned or perform potentially dangerous tasks stoned frequently. And one of these days, if not several times a month, it WILL result in fatalities. This is why I cannot buy the "it doesn't harm other people" argument and never will.
Secondly, "I'm only hurting myself". So suicide is AOK with you or what? Should society stand by shuffling its feet while individuals poison themselves? |
There are laws and workplace regulations that provide for punishments for coming to work on alcohol, as it should be with pot.
Also, your instance on using the word poison for smoking marijuana in a recurring source of joy to me.
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I thought he meant literal poisoning then, as in antifreeze.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:45 |
Stonebeard: Workplace laws and regulations... Some guy got stoned, got behind the wheel of a truck, wham someone's child is dead.
"Oh but there are workplace laws and regulations" Stonebeard will tell you.
Please.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:49 |
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And I think there's really nothing left to say after that.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 21:57 |
Padraic wrote:
And I think there's really nothing left to say after that. |
No, there really, really isn't.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 22:51 |
Textbook wrote:
Stonebeard: Workplace laws and regulations... Some guy got stoned, got behind the wheel of a truck, wham someone's child is dead.
"Oh but there are workplace laws and regulations" Stonebeard will tell you.
Please. |
Maybe I did not say this plainly enough. People are already going to work stoned, driving stoned, operating school buses and other dangerous equipment stoned, and even worse minors going to school stoned. Where has the criminalization of the substance ever stopped this? Where? How does making it legal but regulated like alcohol making it harder to purchase make this worse than it is now that the purchase of the substance can be made by anyone, any age any where? This argument is not logical at all.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 22:58 |
How about we just make it legal for those who want it to be and keep it illegal for those who don't, man? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 23:27 |
Garion81 wrote:
Maybe I did not say this plainly enough. |
*ahem* ...
JLocke wrote:
These are the same arguments I posed to him, and he skimmed right over as if they didn't even exist. Don't expect a straight response from him. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: November 04 2010 at 23:29 |
stonebeard wrote:
Padraic wrote:
And I think there's really nothing left to say after that. |
No, there really, really isn't.
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Well that settles it! Textbook wins. Debate over.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 01:39 |
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Hey Textbook, "people" (a group you seem not to belong to -?!-) do sometimes drive trucks totally drunk and kill people. But not everybody does. In fact, the proportion of people doing that is quite low. The same idiots that do it now would do it with marihuana. Is not like if weed is legal everybody will suddenly decide to go to work stoned and risk lifes (and their jobs). Some peple will always act stupidly no matter how much you try to prevent them from. Most people will control themselves because, contrary to your beliefs, "people" prefer to keep their jobs and not to kill somebody.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 01:55 |
Alright, time to bring out the big guns.
Listen to me carefully.
I believe that, the morning after marijuana is legalised, there is a high probability that Stonebeard will run through his neighbourhood in his underpants at 5am singing Aquarius at the top of his lungs.
It just isn't worth the risk.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 01:58 |
Textbook wrote:
Alright, time to bring out the big guns.
Listen to me carefully.
I believe that, the morning after marijuana is legalised, there is a high probability that Stonebeard will run through his neighbourhood in his underpants at 5am singing Aquarius at the top of his lungs.
It just isn't worth the risk. |
He does already. Not a pretty sight bro
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 03:14 |
Textbook wrote:
Alright, time to bring out the big guns.
Listen to me carefully.
I believe that, the morning after marijuana is legalised, there is a high probability that Stonebeard will run through his neighbourhood in his underpants at 5am singing Aquarius at the top of his lungs.
It just isn't worth the risk. |
I never leave home without my underpants. What if I get hit by a truck? (My mum always warned me about this)
Edited by ExittheLemming - November 05 2010 at 03:15
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 03:33 |
Of course should be legalized. There is not one valid argument against legalization, if we're not taking those BS religious and, also, a majority of flipping politicians' "arguments" seriously!
BTW, the biggest anti-marijuana coalition are pharma corporations who wanna keep their BIG deal with anti-depressive tablets what drive you to be depend on them, a liqueurs producers, and, finaly, the dealers of un-legalized marijuana who are making their profits by crime, because - legalized marijuana - no crime deal - no such a big profit for them.
Edited by Svetonio - November 05 2010 at 03:36
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 04:18 |
I think the thing that really defeats all arguments against legalisation is historical precedent.
I looked into it and found out, to my surprise to be honest, that every single time a narcotic substance has become more widely available to a populace, the result has been economic prosperity, less health problems, greater social harmony and a decrease in the number of ghettos and petty crimes.
Only this time, with marijuana, it will be even better. The crucial difference is that several members of this forum are users of it, which means that legalisation will usher in a veritable golden age.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 07:52 |
Textbook wrote:
Alright, time to bring out the big guns.
Listen to me carefully.
I believe that, the morning after marijuana is legalised, there is a high probability that Stonebeard will run through his neighbourhood in his underpants at 5am singing Aquarius at the top of his lungs.
It just isn't worth the risk. |
Joke's on you! I don't know the lyrics to that song. I probably will find a way to sing along to an instrumental song, though.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 08:48 |
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^ repeating the word "Aquarius" in an overtly earnest broadway chorus manner to the tune of "Memory" would be a close approximation ... don't worry of you don't know the tune, that is a primordial tune pre-programmed into all humans that only emerges when intoxicated.
Edited by Dean - November 05 2010 at 08:49
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What?
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 12:07 |
Svetonio wrote:
Of course should be legalized. There is not one valid argument against legalization, if we're not taking those BS religious and, also, a majority of flipping politicians' "arguments" seriously!
BTW, the biggest anti-marijuana coalition are pharma corporations who wanna keep their BIG deal with anti-depressive tablets what drive you to be depend on them, a liqueurs producers, and, finaly, the dealers of un-legalized marijuana who are making their profits by crime, because - legalized marijuana - no crime deal - no such a big profit for them. |
If that is the case then why are they researching and developing their own synthetic forms of THC? Would they not be doing this if they were against marijuana completely? It was interesting to note that some of the biggest opponents of Prop 19 in this state were the Medical Marijuana Dispensary owners. With it becoming legal to sell they and their growers would become obsolete. Also there are users of the drug against the proposition because it would have made it illegal for a minor to posses and smoke or for anyone to smoke (or use) in front of a minor. It would also make smoking in public illegal. Right now due to a law passed and signed by the govenator a few weeks ago possessing under an OZ of pot is not considered a crime any longer. It is the same as a traffic ticket and does not go on your record. It is a straight $100 fine.
But the real opponent is the Federal Government that doesn't want any State to step on its authority (see Arizona immigration law)
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Should marijuana be legalized?
