Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?

^ I would not use the word myself - neither in the real world nor here, but it enters these discussions because Dawkins called his book "The God Delusion". Personally I prefer calling it "false belief", or rather "belief in the absence of evidence". If someone believes that Christ was born of a virgin, that's IMO much more a belief in the absence of evidence than a delusion. The delusion part becomes more evident once someone bases their life on the belief as if it was fact. Christians cannot *know* whether their theories are any more true than those of the Muslims. Acting as if there was sufficient reason to prefer your own belief over others, that's the delusive part IMO. Of course now Iván will say that I'm no different here, since I obviously believe that the Atheist position is preferable. But there is a fundamental difference here:

"Jesus is our prophet - as proven by scripture."
"Mohammed is our prophet - as proven by scripture."
"Moses is our prophet - as proven by scripture."
...
"We have no way of knowing who is our prophet or if there ever was a true prophet, and in the light of all the discoveries in the last 2000+ years it seems more and more likely that we simply exist in this world, and no supernatural component is needed to explain it. We remain open to other theories, but until evidence comes in we'll go with the most likely theory that makes as little unproven assumptions as possible."

See? You're welcome to reject the Atheist position, but it is not just another religion.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - July 09 2010 at 04:46

Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ I would not use the word myself - neither in the real world nor here, but it enters these discussions because Dawkins called his book "The God Delusion". Personally I prefer calling it "false belief", or rather "belief in the absence of evidence". If someone believes that Christ was born of a virgin, that's IMO much more a belief in the absence of evidence than a delusion. The delusion part becomes more evident once someone bases their life on the belief as if it was fact. Christians cannot *know* whether their theories are any more true than those of the Muslims. Acting as if there was sufficient reason to prefer your own belief over others, that's the delusive part IMO. Of course now Iván will say that I'm no different here, since I obviously believe that the Atheist position is preferable. But there is a fundamental difference here: "Jesus is our prophet - as proven by scripture." "Mohammed is our prophet - as proven by scripture." "Moses is our prophet - as proven by scripture." ... "We have no way of knowing who is our prophet or if there ever was a true prophet, and in the light of all the discoveries in the last 2000+ years it seems more and more likely that we simply exist in this world, and no supernatural component is needed to explain it. We remain open to other theories, but until evidence comes in we'll go with the most likely theory that makes as little unproven assumptions as possible." See? You're welcome to reject the Atheist position, but it is not just another religion.

Edited by seventhsojourn - July 09 2010 at 05:23

^ the medical definition of the psychiatric condition is not the same as the dictionary definition and the two meanings are not interchangeable. The medical definition of Religious Delusion is that the person believes that either they are god or have been chosen to act as a god.

OK, so were settled now? 

Slartibartfast wrote: OK, so were settled now?

SgtPepper67 wrote: thellama73 wrote: I think this is a rather insulting thread, and this is coming from an agnostic. Obviously theists don't believe their arguments have been thoroughly refuted. Your basic premise in your opening question is "I'm right and you're wrong so what do you think about that?" It doesn't seem like you want to have a real conversation, you just want to make fun of people you view as stupid. All the logic and science in the world is not going to convince a theist that he is wrong, but it's not an issue which is governed by logic. It is one that comes from personal experience. Why don't you let others hold their beliefs, just as you are free to hold yours, without going out of your way to mock them? If you want to make the world a better place, you might start with a little respect for others.

I happen to think mocking things is quite fun. Here's a neat little thing I pondered:

If God is everywhere, and evil can't be in the presence of God, then evil can't be anywhere.

Here's another goodie:

Why did the baby drop her lollipop?

Because she was hit by a truck...

What did those have in common? Well, God made the truck and the lollipop...Which means he is both contributing to infanticide and childhood obesity, that wretched b*****d! And you know what? I bet he made the alcohol that caused the truck driver to hit the baby, and I bet he made the cheating slut wife that caused the truck driver to drink, and I bet he made the truck driver's penis very tiny to make the wife cheat.

So, if I may make a bold, iconic gesture, it seems as if God's priorities are to craft a world filled to the veritable brim with nothing but drunken, obese, adulterous, truck driving, dead babies with tiny penises.

I hope I didn't offend anyone...it's just what I believe.

JLocke wrote: Not my point. God at one point or another said it was okay to kill your children. That's wrong. I don't care if certain interpretations try to twist it and say ''well, we can't take that literally''-- it was said, nonetheless. So what if Jesus came later and said ''Hey, daddy's wrong. Listen to ME instead,'' such a thing should have never been said to be okay, in any form.

Alitare wrote: I happen to think mocking things is quite fun. Here's a neat little thing I pondered: If God is everywhere, and evil can't be in the presence of God, then evil can't be anywhere. Here's another goodie: Why did the baby drop her lollipop? Because she was hit by a truck... What did those have in common? Well, God made the truck and the lollipop...Which means he is both contributing to infanticide and childhood obesity, that wretched b*****d! And you know what? I bet he made the alcohol that caused the truck driver to hit the baby, and I bet he made the cheating slut wife that caused the truck driver to drink, and I bet he made the truck driver's penis very tiny to make the wife cheat. So, if I may make a bold, iconic gesture, it seems as if God's priorities are to craft a world filled to the veritable brim with nothing but drunken, obese, adulterous, truck driving, dead babies with tiny penises. I hope I didn't offend anyone...it's just what I believe.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The T wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: OK, so were settled now?  Yes. I won. You lost. No matter what you delusional ignorant unreasonable beliefs tell you, I conquered.  And no, I'm not saying you're delusional, ignorant or unreasonable.   You forgot fanatics.   But the guidelines or at least the rules of courtesy don't apply to some.   Iván

Look, the guidelines apply to everyone. Show me one instance over the course of this discussion where anyone has specifically denigrated your personal beliefs then I will take appropriate action based upon my judgement of the situation, its context and the general tone of the preceding conversation.