Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - "Freedom" thread or something
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closed"Freedom" thread or something
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1819202122 294>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
KoS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:11
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Why? the reason he went after the kid that was because of race. And I don't exactly consider it a race issue, I consider it an incompetence issue.

Also, we do not live in a post-racism world. Stop trying to think that we do.
You are obviously not capable of understanding the point Brian and I were trying to make.
The same thing I said, but you guys are blaming a media circus, but that circus is the one that brought so much heat and pressure upon the police dept. and the state of Florida. Or else, it would have been ignored.
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:16
The media is the #1 problem with regard to this case in my opinion.

They post this:

http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/files/2012/03/Trayvon-Zimmerman-diptych.jpg


These photos are old.  It has the youth as a smiling, innocent-looking 11-year-old, and the man looking thug in prison orange.

That is enough to make people form an immediate opinion regardless of the facts, is it not?
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
KoS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:20
There was that other fake photo of him going around.
 and
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:22
Indeed, but which photo came first, and which was most prominent?

The media publishes "half" the information, but people form opinions now. 

Also, I would bet my balls that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been sitting at home if Trayvon had been white.

Edited by Epignosis - March 28 2012 at 19:22
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
Finnforest View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Online
Points: 17181 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:23
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Why? the reason he went after the kid that was because of race. And I don't exactly consider it a race issue, I consider it an incompetence issue.

Also, we do not live in a post-racism world. Stop trying to think that we do.
You are obviously not capable of understanding the point Brian and I were trying to make.
The same thing I said, but you guys are blaming a media circus, but that circus is the one that brought so much heat and pressure upon the police dept. and the state of Florida. Or else, it would have been ignored.


True Kos, and this new special prosecutor is going to look this over carefully.  Believe me, with the intense pressure and outrage, if there's a any possible case here he will be charged.  OTOH, it is possible that the facts do not support the Martin side of events.  Whatever the race of the people involved, being followed does not give you the right to assault someone and beat the sh*t out of them.   IF, and i say IF, that's what happened.

Teo has been right on this all along.  Let the facts come out before we decide what happened.
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
Back to Top
KoS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:26
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Also, I would bet my balls that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been sitting at home if Trayvon had been white.
I hate those guys with a f**king passion.
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:31
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Also, I would bet my balls that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been sitting at home if Trayvon had been white.
I hate those guys with a f**king passion.

I racism would suddenly disappear, these two would be jobless and homeless. Racism going away is the last thing they want to happen. 
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:33
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Also, I would bet my balls that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been sitting at home if Trayvon had been white.
I hate those guys with a f**king passion.

I racism would suddenly disappear, these two would be jobless and homeless. Racism going away is the last thing they want to happen. 


Precisely.  You start the NAAWP and you are automatically racist.  Ermm

(and you are)


Edited by Epignosis - March 28 2012 at 19:33
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:35
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

That's why the bank is insured( federally, but you know, the Libertarian boogeyman). And that;s how they make money.


But with piggy banking that's gunna be the end of it?
Everyone making money will be fine with it? The same type of banking would surely open up. But without the backing of the government wouldn't there be less incentive to take such radical gambles like they did through the 2000s?
Wouldn't they not say to that young couple "Suuuure you can take a $450,000 loan for that mega house, just dont worry  we got it"? True story.

If so then fine, they will just pay the price of irresponsibility. In the mean time peoples money would be safe in their big ol piggy banks.

Govt. policies did not contribute to those poor investments. That was poor  business practices.


Indeed, but how can you say there was no contribution?
The Fed admitted they kept interest rates too low, that came from Alan Greenspan. Doesn't that have an incentive to continue bad practices? Especially with the safety net of a bailout.

Also it is known that the government encouraged bank to make loans, even if people did not the ability to pay. This was not all bad, it was to get more people in homes. It's a fine idea on paper, but if the government didn't do that, and there was no fed to keep rates low and be there for bailout, would the boom have been so big?



Edited by JJLehto - March 28 2012 at 19:51
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 19:49
Bringing up race just fans the flames and distorts truth and justice.
Not everyone will be happy along the process of things but this obsession (from any way you wanna look at it) keeps a cycle going. How will there be any hope of moving on like this?

As it's been said, the media needs a story, Sharpton and Jackson need a story, gun control advocates will use this for their gain..it's sad all around.


Edited by JJLehto - March 28 2012 at 19:50
Back to Top
KoS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:10
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Also, I would bet my balls that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been sitting at home if Trayvon had been white.
I hate those guys with a f**king passion.

I racism would suddenly disappear, these two would be jobless and homeless. Racism going away is the last thing they want to happen. 


Precisely.  You start the NAAWP and you are automatically racist.  Ermm

(and you are)
I'm assuming you are joking, right? because in this thread, I do not know.
Back to Top
KoS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:18
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

That's why the bank is insured( federally, but you know, the Libertarian boogeyman). And that;s how they make money.


But with piggy banking that's gunna be the end of it?
Everyone making money will be fine with it? The same type of banking would surely open up. But without the backing of the government wouldn't there be less incentive to take such radical gambles like they did through the 2000s?
Wouldn't they not say to that young couple "Suuuure you can take a $450,000 loan for that mega house, just dont worry  we got it"? True story.

If so then fine, they will just pay the price of irresponsibility. In the mean time peoples money would be safe in their big ol piggy banks.

Govt. policies did not contribute to those poor investments. That was poor  business practices.


Indeed, but how can you say there was no contribution?
The Fed admitted they kept interest rates too low, that came from Alan Greenspan. Doesn't that have an incentive to continue bad practices? Especially with the safety net of a bailout.

Also it is known that the government encouraged bank to make loans, even if people did not the ability to pay. This was not all bad, it was to get more people in homes. It's a fine idea on paper, but if the government didn't do that, and there was no fed to keep rates low and be there for bailout, would the boom have been so big?


I told you I can back my sh*t up, not always trolling.


Edited by KoS - March 28 2012 at 20:22
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:18
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Also, I would bet my balls that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would have been sitting at home if Trayvon had been white.
I hate those guys with a f**king passion.

I racism would suddenly disappear, these two would be jobless and homeless. Racism going away is the last thing they want to happen. 


Precisely.  You start the NAAWP and you are automatically racist.  Ermm

(and you are)
I'm assuming you are joking, right? because in this thread, I do not know.


Not joking.

The NAACP is a racist organization.  I don't care that a white man started it.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
KoS View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:21
No, I meant  starting up a NAAWP part of you joke.

I am well aware at the racism of the NAACP on some issues.
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:30
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

No, I meant  starting up a NAAWP part of you joke.

I am well aware at the racism of the NAACP on some issues.


I am a public school teacher.

We have rallies where we pull kids out class for Native Americans, Hispanics, and blacks who want to celebrate their collectivity.  It's 2012, and we're still celebrating racial differences.  If you are white, you are condemned for celebrating your heritage collectively (and you should be).

Incidentally, most people don't know what the difference among race, ethnicity, and nationality is. 

Most of my students wear tight jeans or sag their pants or are addicted to their cell phones or talk the same broken mess of a language or are ignorant of American government or etc.

We are multiracial.  That does not make use multicultural.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
JJLehto View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 20:40
Right off the bat, you are giving me something from the Fed?
This doesn't automatically discard it, but uh...maybe a little biased? ANY organization will be out to protect itself.


Also before I read that, I already know the CRA in its original form did not encourage irresponsibility, but Clinton did loosen it up. That along with the Fed keeping interest rates low, and having them being there as a bailout, why not engage in such bad behavior? What was the risk to doing it? It's a shame the CRA which was well intended got derailed, but isn't that what always happens?

I'm not saying everything would've been honky dory but I can't see the bubble being as big (thus the pop as bad) if the government had 0 involvement.

This is also just one recession, there have been many. I thought the Fed was supposed to smooth that sh*t out?



Edited by JJLehto - March 28 2012 at 20:41
Back to Top
Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:16
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

 
Maybe arrest is the wrong word. Proper investigation did not occur because they ignored Zimmerman's past, and went with his word. Ignored and mistreated evidence (no photos of Zimmerman's injuries, proper cataloging of the scene etc.), and also race clash? This isn't some all out race war, this is a fundamental problem with the justice system. And Zimmerman should be investigated and tried in front of a jury. 

Or do you really believe that a man with a history of paranoia against strangers in his neighborhood, against the advice of  police, went after a "suspect" after repeated pleas for him not to follow, ends up shooting an unarmed man in "self-defense"?



Never disagreed with anything you said in that first paragraph.

I don't believe anything. I'm not privy to all the evidence. I have this habit of not forming opinions on hysteria and vastly incomplete recollections of the situation. I know there's supposedly eye witness accounts verifying Zimmerman's statements that he was attacked first. I know Zimmerman's previous actions and adamant following of the child speaks of foul play. I'll wait until things calm down and the whole story has come out before I make a personal decision. As of now, my decision is that there seems to be enough evidence to arrest the man and put him on trial.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:18
Pat, I mostly agree with you, but I must ask: Do you think he could get a fair trial?
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
Back to Top
Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:19
Originally posted by KoS KoS wrote:

 
In addition, we must understand that banks merely leverage government money. When we go through business school we are taught that banks obtain deposits and then leverage those deposits up by 10X or so. This is why we call the modern banking system a “Fractional Reserve Banking” system. Banks supposedly lend a portion of their “reserves”. There’s just one problem here. Banks are never reserve constrained! Banks are always capital constrained. Reserves are used for only two purposes – to settle payments in the overnight market and to meet the Fed’s reserve ratios. Aside from this, reserves have very little impact on the day to day lending operations of banks in the USA. This was recently confirmed in a Fed paper:
“Changes in reserves are unrelated to changes in lending, and open market operations do not have a direct impact on lending. We conclude that the textbook treatment of money in the transmission mechanism can be rejected.”
This is very important to understand because many have assumed that various Fed policies in recent years would be inflationary or even hyperinflationary. But all the Fed has been doing is adding reserves to the banking system. As we learned above, this doesn’t lead to more lending and will not result in the private sector being able to access more capital. Because banks are not reserve constrained it can only mean one thing – banks lend when creditworthy customers have demand for loans.

Lastly, this also shows that banks create money entirely within the banking system. As was said above:
“When banks create money by extending credit (loans create deposits), this occurs completely within the banking system and results in a liability for the bank (the deposit) and a corresponding asset (the loan). The customer has an asset (the deposit) and a corresponding liability (the loan). This nets to zero.

Thus vertical money created by the government affects net financial assets and horizontal money created by banks does not, although its use in the economy as productive capital can increase real assets.”
So, contrary to what we are all taught in school, loans actually create deposits and not the other way around as the money multiplier would have us all believe. When a bank makes a loan it debits the Loans Receivable account on its books. To balance this transaction it will create a new liability in the name of the borrower. This loan will create a deposit somewhere else in the banking system (possibly at the same bank) which will cause this new bank to also account for its new liability (the deposit) and change in reserves at the Fed. Scott Fullwiler elaborates on this confusing point:
“The bank does not “use” cash to make a loan. The loan creates a deposit. If cash is withdrawn by the borrower this reduces its deposits. So, the cash is “used” in the process of settling a borrower’s withdrawal. This is the key point that confuses so many–banks don’t “use” cash or reserves to make loans since those are merely bookkeeping entries. They need cash or reserves to settle withdrawals that arise from creating the loan/deposit.”
http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system


That's a nice account of the accounting principles at work, but it says nothing about the economic effects. To say that changes in reserves are unrelated to changes in lending is just fantasy.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Back to Top
Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2012 at 21:20
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Pat, I mostly agree with you, but I must ask: Do you think he could get a fair trial?


No I do not. However, I think that's frequently the case. It's an unfortunate consequence of a jury of peers. It's one of the reasons that I think an arrangement of professional jurors could be beneficial.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1819202122 294>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.