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Topic ClosedWill piracy kill off prog rock ?
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:14
BTW I have to confess having tried some years ago (with eMule) but got quite fed up when a couple of times after downloading, say, "Camel-Stationary Traveller.zip" (or .rar) which at the speed of those days took quite a while, and after decompressing the file it was some porn video Confused
Scared for viruses too, I don't know if it may kill prog but I don't want it to kill my PC.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:15
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

I always suspected the Cloud idea was an elaborate trick.
Yeah, let the people who sold you the stuff look after it for you. That sounded like a really smart idea to me.
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Points: 210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:25
Not if you have great labels like Esoteric making great remastering and great liner notes that make it worthwhile not to steal and buy music in a cd or vinyl format
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:27
Assuming that people are downloading prog in the first place. There are a lot of prog artists who, from a listener's standpoint, feel like they will never get out of the bandcamp sludge. There are definitely many talented musicians, but a lot of amateur-sounding artists. These days, I hear scarcely any prog that considers itself prog that could ever break out and actually, y'know, reach people. People chalk it up to "it's not accessible" or "it's not poppy," but, really, most of it just fails to connect with people on a human level.

That said, I think, in the prog community, there will always be loyal, record purchasing fans. Most prog fans like physical copies if they can afford them.

But Dean might be right about the Cloud thing. This may be raining on everyone's parade here, but I suppose you could say ownership is but a vapor. It will disappear lightening fast and prog will simply have to weather through it. But maybe (who knows?) it will make a thunderous return.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:28
Originally posted by SMSM SMSM wrote:

Not if you have great labels like Esoteric making great remastering and great liner notes that make it worthwhile not to steal and buy music in a cd or vinyl format
That's the key of course - make something that people want to hold in their hands, make your product desirable.


Of course then it's not just about the music but just the packaging, however, you still need to have good music to wrap it all around.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:31
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

But Dean might be right about the Cloud thing. 
Trust me, I know stuff - I predicted the death of the computer mouse long before Apple invented the iPad. Admittedly I said that back in 1985 when touch screens were a mere figment of the imagination, but I was right.
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Points: 4807 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:36
Probably, but it's always been around in some form or another (in the '70s, albums were passed around between friends to be recorded onto cassettes).
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

But Dean might be right about the Cloud thing. 
Trust me, I know stuff - I predicted the death of the computer mouse long before Apple invented the iPad. Admittedly I said that back in 1985 when touch screens were a mere figment of the imagination, but I was right.
I, too, have prescience the likes of which the world has never seen. I predicted that Steve Jobs would die— eventually.

Edited by Polymorphia - September 23 2014 at 10:39
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Points: 16913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:38
I will always opt for a physical CD I can pluck from my shelf, I just enjoy them, logical or not.  Then again, I love my mouse too, and I loathe touch screen technology.  Every time I answer a damn phone call my cheek hits the hyper sensitive screen and i push a bunch of buttons with my face.....

It's official.  I'm old.  Smile


Edited by Finnforest - September 23 2014 at 10:38
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:46
But, folks, the problem is now that piracy is the standard, not the exception. ;-)
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Points: 362 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:51
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well it's quite obvious. Most people downloading prog albums do not buy them afterwards. Even so called  "fans" of x band do this, and as a result of this fewer records are sold. I mean, this isn't exactly rocket scienceClown
I'm sure (I certainly hope) the bands who have something to say, in an original way, will come out on top. Granted, small teenie tiny acts, that 9 people know of worldwide, who gets their album downloaded, are probably not going to make it financially - unless it sparks a huge public success and people actually start paying money for the music. 
The people who file-share the most also spend the most money on the type of material they share as is shown in numerous studies.
One important reason why there are less cd's/lp's/other physical music containers are being sold is itunes/spotify/similar online services.
The big superstars (Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc) see less revenue because most of their albums suck so people download the singles or other few songs that sound ok, the rest gets ignored.

Music will never die because people wil always make music as we have done for at least 35000 years.
And folks can still earn a living doing music even without selling physical cd's (ad-revenue on spotify, (just keep all your copyrights instead of signing some or all away to some record company).

Be creative and think of a new, working business model for the modern age and use file sharing as a promotional tool.
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:53
Spotify, spit spit spit. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25217353

So, I get $0.007 per complete play. It is an absolute total rip off. Described as "democratic anarchy". 10,000 complete plays on Spotify is 70 cents. 

I really should put some figures up for the non musicians here to show how bad things are...... believe it or not, it is almost impossible to make enough money from music to pay for a new instrument, let alone set up the money to do a live gig or tour.

As for "be creative"..... it doesn't work. Even if you give hundreds of free downloads away. People just say thank you very much and wait for the next free download from somewhere else, or they use whatever download platform they're on as a free radio station. 






Edited by Davesax1965 - September 23 2014 at 10:58
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:58
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

But, folks, the problem is now that piracy is the standard, not the exception. ;-)
Not around here it isn't. You have wandered into probably the only music forum on the internet that values the musician as much as the music. Huzzah for that I say.
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:59
Well, thank God for that, Dean. Smile
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 11:00
Originally posted by unclemeat69 unclemeat69 wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well it's quite obvious. Most people downloading prog albums do not buy them afterwards. Even so called  "fans" of x band do this, and as a result of this fewer records are sold. I mean, this isn't exactly rocket scienceClown
I'm sure (I certainly hope) the bands who have something to say, in an original way, will come out on top. Granted, small teenie tiny acts, that 9 people know of worldwide, who gets their album downloaded, are probably not going to make it financially - unless it sparks a huge public success and people actually start paying money for the music. 
The people who file-share the most also spend the most money on the type of material they share as is shown in numerous studies.
One important reason why there are less cd's/lp's/other physical music containers are being sold is itunes/spotify/similar online services.
The big superstars (Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc) see less revenue because most of their albums suck so people download the singles or other few songs that sound ok, the rest gets ignored.

Music will never die because people wil always make music as we have done for at least 35000 years.
And folks can still earn a living doing music even without selling physical cd's (ad-revenue on spotify, (just keep all your copyrights instead of signing some or all away to some record company).

Be creative and think of a new, working business model for the modern age and use file sharing as a promotional tool.


I'm not sure that's completely right. Either way I was talking about the folks actually downloading the stuff filesharers illegally upload. Anyway, I think a lot of these filesharers upload versions of albums, which are meant for promotional purposes - and promos don't cost sh*t. 
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Points: 362 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 11:01
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120622/16193319442/myth-dispensing-whole-spotify-barely-pays-artists-story-is-bunk.shtml
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 11:08
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/08/spotify_and_pandora_artist_payments_not_as_exploitative_as_they_re_made.html

In June, David Lowery, singer-guitarist of Cracker and Camper Van Beethoven, posted part of a royalty statement to his blog The Trichordist. Cracker's song "Low," he revealed, had been played 1,159,000 times on Pandora in three months; Lowery, in his capacity as the song’s co-composer, was paid $16.89. For 116,280 plays on Spotify, Lowery got $12.05. Meanwhile, "Low" racked up only 18,797 plays on AM and FM radio stations during the same quarter. But for far fewer spins, Lowery received far more money: $1,373.78, to be exact.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 11:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

But, folks, the problem is now that piracy is the standard, not the exception. ;-)
Not around here it isn't. You have wandered into probably the only music forum on the internet that values the musician as much as the music. Huzzah for that I say.


This is my belief as well, thank ford.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 11:09
And when I've been played on radio, I've received, generally, $0 in royalty payments. I actually had someone telling me that "PSA is worth sh*t in Belgium".

Sorry to mention it, Unclemeat, you're quoting off the internet - I'm quoting from experience of actually being there. 
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 11:13
Spotify isn't exactly piracy either. We were talking about piracy weren't we?
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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