Progarchives.com has always (since 2002) relied on banners ads to cover web hosting fees and all.
Please consider supporting us by giving monthly PayPal donations and help keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage") |
|
Post Reply 
|
Page <123> |
| Author | |||
Horizons 
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
 Posted: December 04 2011 at 09:45 |
||
|
^ Agreed. I remember someone posting a Wiki article on "Post-Prog", and it mostly consisted of crossover bands.
To try to answer your questions. I believe a lot of the bands you list are progressive, they just tend to be more accessible to the public. Thus the Crossover label.
|
|||
|
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
|
|||
 |
|||
|
darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: December 04 2011 at 12:49 |
||
|
If you analyze the LANGUAGE being used, "post-progressive" sounds like some thing that is NOT progressive. "After progressive" is what this means.
For example, "Post-rock" really doesnt have many rockin' moments to my ears; from what Ive heard. This whole "post-(subgenre)" is really just stupid. |
|||
|
|||
|
adamhunter
Forum Newbie 
Joined: December 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Posted: December 18 2011 at 07:41 |
||
|
Hello, sorry for my late reply to this thread. You know how it is with the balance or work and study. Anywho, I would like to thank everyone who has answered this thread. It is really much appreciated. Investigating this term, to see if it is in fact a genre has been most problematic, but immensely interesting.
Please feel free to continue to answer my question, each view is welcomed very much. My study on this subject would not be what it is without yours and the input of other music fans Adam
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Hemulen
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 31 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 5964 |
Posted: December 18 2011 at 11:53 |
||
|
Hi Adam. I'd personally be very interested to know what's lead you to examine this particular term and where else you've encountered it. It's not a phrase I've personally seen being used on this or indeed any other prog-releated site I frequent. Are there examples of music journalists, record labels, or even musicians using the term?
As for the bands you mentioned in your post, I'm not familiar with all of them but here's my take on the few I do know at least well enough to have formed an opinion on them. Muse - Not a progressive rock band, IMO, but nor do they shy away from dipping their toes in proggy waters whenever it takes their fancy. A rock band with a few proggy trimmings every now and then. Radiohead - Innovative, intelligent, ocassionally flat out experimental rock. This isn't quite the same thing as progressive rock, IMO, but I can understand the resultant confusion and bickering amongst prog fans. Mars Volta - Yep, they're a bona fide prog band, IMO. In case you think I'm drawing the prog/not prog distinction on a bands I like/bands I dislike basis (which is a common problem, and something I probably am guilty of at times), they also leave me utterly cold. The others you mentioned I don't know well enough to comment on. Are there any other bands you'd put into this post-rock pigeonhole, I wonder? How about proggy post-rock bands like Godspeed You! Black Emperor or math rock bands like Hella? |
|||
|
|||
|
adamhunter
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Posted: December 18 2011 at 12:41 |
||
|
Hey The Hemulan,
Well, the reason I am examining this term is as a casual fan I have seen a trend of this term "Post-Progressive" being used. I believe that the term is still in its infancy and that it is growing, as this new wave of prog (post-progressive) grows in popularity also. The relatively new British record label KScope that has a roster of Anathema, Porcupine Tree, Steven Wilson, The Pineapple Thief, No Sound, Ulver, Lunatic Soul and North Atlantic Oscillation, state that their acts are post-progressive. the label at the top of their website states they are "Post-Progressive Sounds". KScope also host a bi-monthly Podcast which is labelled the "Post progressive Podcast" This term has been steadily reinforced by the Classic Rock Presents Prog Magazine. A British publication which is sold world wide (I believe). Again, I do believe this is in it's infancy, but it is steadily building momentum. As a musicologist student and a fan of all things Prog. I felt that it would be a fantastic opportunity to investigate genre formation and use this as my subject. I really do believe that a lot of Post-Rock acts are associated to Post-Prog, and that there are alot of cross overs. But I really think that is all up for debate at this stage of the genre's (if it is a genre) development. I hope this has answered your question? |
|||
|
|||
|
laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005 Location: popupControl(); Status: Offline Points: 7606 |
Posted: December 18 2011 at 12:42 |
||
|
sounds like an eminently avoidable sub-category to me o:3
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 31 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 5964 |
Posted: December 18 2011 at 14:02 |
||
Yes, thanks for that. I was wondering if it was a term Classic Rock Presents Prog might've been using, as that mag seems to be having an increasing impact, especially in the UK and though I don't personally read it (I'm far too poor to afford it) it seems like the sort of term a music journalist would coin. It'll be interesting to see if the term catches on with the wider prog community (no sign of it so far), as the seemingly synonymous new/nu-prog tag was widely rejected on sites like this. I don't mean to get you too bogged down on etymology, but that's a personal interest of mine. So do you think we're looking at a genuine new genre developing here? What, in your opinion, are the hallmarks of post-progressive music? Whose opinion do you think counts the most towards the legitimacy of a genre term - the musicians, the industry (labels/journalists/promoters etc.) or the fans? Don't feel you have to respond to my incessant quizzing, by the way, I'm just intrigued by this project. Finally, it might be worth you taking a look at the current British math pop scene. From my limited understanding of what this term might mean, I'd say bands like Everything Everything and Dutch Uncles seem to fit in rather snugly. |
|||
|
|||
|
adamhunter
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Posted: December 19 2011 at 04:45 |
||
|
Hey,
I don't mind answering any questions. Although I do feel unqualified to do so, I mean I am no expert. In my personal opinion, I feel that a genre lives and dies with it's fans. if it's audience do not buy into the music, the music can not be created. That is simple economics, which I hate mentioning because ultimately music (especially prog) is art. The terms (genre label) however, are coined by institutions. Record labels, journalism, radio, artists, promoters. in a attempt to market a product and create an audience. These Institutions then form a canon of that genre. Encompassing what is and rejecting what isn't in that genre to create a formulaic, standardized blueprint of what makes up that genre. Which ultimately acts as a template for what we accept into the genre, in terms of new acts. (Again all this is accepted by audience - by buying into it) What is very interesting about the Post-Progressive is, that a large number of Prog fans are rejecting this term. However, the music is popular, and selling, it has an audience. Institutions are still pushing this term. As I said previously I am investigating if this in fact a genre. But what is becoming more clear is that the post-progressive may have an audience of its own!?! Although, that would be very problematic for me to conclude this so early into my investigation. The hallmarks of post-prog. are the same as Prog they're just not as virtuosic and in your face. For example. There are conceptual ideas - longer compositions, treating the album as art, advanced production techniques, soundscapes, virtuosic playing. Which is all Prog influence. It's just not as blatant in my opinion. Someone could listen to this having not heard any classic-prog and not find these artists a difficult, marathon-esque like listen. (Again this is only an opinion) I will check out those two Math rock bands, and if you have any more suggestions please feel free. I hope this answers your question? Adam |
|||
|
|||
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: December 19 2011 at 04:51 |
||
|
But a post-term ought to indicate a new approach in some fashion. Muse and Radiohead have influences that derive from prog or prog related music and therefore, could be argued to be an organic extension and contemporary update of prog rock and no more. Perhaps, the idea being proposed, though, is that sprawling epics a la the 70s are not feasible in the present climate of the rock scene and post prog signifies a less epic approach. In that case, too, I'd say it's still early in the day for such a term because bands that 'grew' alongside Radiohead, like Opeth, PT, DT, have not shown any strong indication of embracing such an approach.
|
|||
|
|||
|
tupan
Forum Senior Member 
VIP Member Joined: August 22 2005 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 1241 |
Posted: December 19 2011 at 05:40 |
||
|
|||
|
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
|
|||
|
|||
|
harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: December 20 2011 at 16:54 |
||
|
^ that was not a very good post from darkshade.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Harry Hood
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
Posted: December 20 2011 at 17:41 |
||
Then you obviously haven't heard Korea Has Nukes.
|
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 20 2011 at 17:50 |
||
|
Progressive
|
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: December 21 2011 at 01:56 |
||
|
Listen, I just don't like the "post-" tags. People just dont know what to call certain new music. No one calls be-bop "post-swing", or something like that. **Edit** I dont really like the term post-bop either.
The entire canon of progressive music (and progressive rock in particular) is so vast and different that it cannot be summed up into one category, and have a movement follow it. Progressive is not an arbitrary time period, for it is always happening. Post-progressive would just become another branch of progressive music and become what it meant not to be. Edited by darkshade - December 21 2011 at 01:59 |
|||
|
|||
|
kole
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 15 2009 Location: Slovenia Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Posted: December 21 2011 at 04:36 |
||
|
And yet tags like "post-punk", "post-metal" and "post-rock" stood the test of time and are in full use nowadays. When you hear the tag said, you definitely know about which bands and what sound it is.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 21 2011 at 04:42 |
||
|
All those Post tags could mean anything though. It's lazy journalism.
Edited by Snow Dog - December 21 2011 at 04:42 |
|||
|
|
|||
|
|||
|
harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: December 21 2011 at 07:04 |
||
This was definitely an improvement. |
|||
|
|||
|
Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: March 07 2012 at 07:27 |
||
EDIT: Also, if we call Discipline the album "post - progressive", imo it means "post" regarding only previous KC's catalogue, not British Progressive Rock movement in general.
These different bands what you mentioned above, I'd like to call simply "modern prog". Although some current acts don't have Progressive Rock tag, for example Andrew Bird, he is also "modern prog" for me, same as, for example, Radiohead, or Her Name Is Calla, but different stuff of course. Edited by Svetonio - March 07 2012 at 10:01 |
|||
|
|||
|
Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: March 08 2012 at 00:45 |
||
Yes it's absurd IMo, but lets clarify Prog Related is not a genre, it's a category created by Prog Archives to group NON PROG BANDS that have some relation with Prog. Some influenced Prog, others were influenced by Prog, but we are clear, Prog Related bands are not Prog
Here you lost me 1) King Crimson never ceased to be Prog, they crossed several PROGRESSIVE ROCK SUB-GENRES during their career, but almost every album by them is full Prog 2) Peter Gabriel debut is post nothing, simply because it was his first album, some believe PGI is Prog, others say it's Prog Related and a few think just some form of Pop music, honestly I don't know. In the worst scenario Peter Gabriel is an innovative mainstream composer that started his career as vocalist and lyricist of one of the most important Prig bands. In the same way, we don't call Phil Collins albums Post prog becauise he was member of Genesis, instead we call his music POP, pure and simple. I dont believe The Who is related to anything, the are the most iconic Classic Rock band, but if they should have been added here is because Tommy and only in Proto Prog because of songs like Overture, Underture, amazing Journey, etc. Quadrophenia is a masterpiece ad conceptual album, but not Prog. EDIT: Also, if we call Discipline the album "post - progressive", imo it means "post" regarding only previous KC's catalogue, not British Progressive Rock movement in general.[/QUOTE] Please, the post sometig era of King Crrimson started with Lark's Tongues in Aspic as a Post Symphonic album  , each and every King Crimson album is post something, because they change in every album.King Crimson was, is and will be a Prog band (Believe me, because I dislike most King Crimson and still accept this).
IMHO Modern Prog, Retro Prog, Post Prog, etc, are only terms created by people who want to believe they break with the past of the genre...As if this was possible. Lets make things simpler, there's a site with more than 100 sub-genres and another that tags each album with 5, 10 or even 15 different names......Prog is wide enough to create more adjectives. Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 08 2012 at 00:46 |
|||
|
|||
|
|||
|
javier0889
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 170 |
Posted: March 08 2012 at 10:05 |
||
|
I think it's just a term created by and for people who are just being unecessarily snob.
|
|||
|
http://www.last.fm/user/javier0889
|
|||
|
|||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Post-Progressive
Topic Options
adamhunter wrote: