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Dean 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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 Posted: May 02 2011 at 07:55 |
 Syzygy wrote:
I'm voting 'no'. I'm not opposed to electoral reform per se, but this is an unwieldy system that is not a real alternative to what we have at the moment. I would be happy with a single transferable vote (which would make a real difference in marginal constituencies) but under the AV system my vote could (unlikely but possible) go towards the BNP or UKIP, which I'm really not comfortable with. |
How? Only one of your preferences counts towards the end result - if you don't rank the BNP or UKIP candidate then it cannot be counted.
The "BNP" tact is is the electoral equivalent of Godwin's law.
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Kilgannon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2011
Location: Cider Country!
Status: Offline
Points: 158
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 08:28 |
Syzygy wrote:
I'm voting 'no'. I'm not opposed to electoral reform per se, but this is an unwieldy system that is not a real alternative to what we have at the moment. I would be happy with a single transferable vote (which would make a real difference in marginal constituencies) but under the AV system my vote could (unlikely but possible) go towards the BNP or UKIP, which I'm really not comfortable with. |
 I think you don't understand it. You don't have to vote for any more than 1 party if you don't want... And you don't have to 'rank' any party you don't want to rank.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 08:35 |
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I just wish we could have a vote about the electoral system in America.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Davidf60
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 01 2011
Location: U.K.
Status: Offline
Points: 10
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 09:40 |
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I shall be voting Yes, because I believe it's a better system, (hopefully).
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 11:09 |
Dean wrote:
AV is a crap idea, it's not PR, but it's marginally better than what we've got at the moment. The No campaign is being less than honest and that's what's wrong with politics in this country. When they stoop this low you do have to wonder what it is they are affraid of exactly.
I'm voting Yes because I have little choice in the matter - voting No will be taken as a vindication of the First Past the Post system and I cannot allow that. First Past The Post means that whoever gets elected has the support of just over 1/3rd of the country, just under 1/3rd of the country votes for the opposition and about 1/3rd of country votes for people who have no say in how the country is run, and that's a really really crap system no matter how you look at it. |
This. I feel the same way, Dean. I'll be voting Yes too. One slight issue with AV I do have is that people won't fully grasp the concept and will just vote for one candidate anyway and secondly, I may find only one or two candidates suitable and I wouldn't want someone I did like's vote going onto the overall vote of someone else I may not like. Unless I've understood something incorrectly? But yes, it's not full PR, which I'd much prefer.
Edited by James - May 02 2011 at 11:17
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 11:49 |
James wrote:
and secondly, I may find only one or two candidates suitable and I wouldn't want someone I did like's vote going onto the overall vote of someone else I may not like.
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Say what? You don't have to rank all candidates - if you rank all the candidates you do like then nothing and no one can transfer your vote over to someone who you don't like. Only your top vote counts, if all your ranked candidates are eliminated (unlikely) then your vote simply doesn't count even if there are unranked names still on your ballot paper.
The AV system is still "one man one vote"
Edited by Dean - May 02 2011 at 11:49
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 11:58 |
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The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:18 |
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards.
Edited by Dean - May 02 2011 at 12:18
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:22 |
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THere's even a bit of propaganda at the top of this page! agggh
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Help me I'm falling!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 12:37 |
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^ hahaha yes - not all can see that googleAd of course. Even M@X makes cash on the No Campaign.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:02 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards. |
I've not really taken any notice of campaigning. What is wrong with the campaign for no?
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:07 |
Dean wrote:
James wrote:
and secondly, I may find only one or two candidates suitable and I wouldn't want someone I did like's vote going onto the overall vote of someone else I may not like.
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Say what? You don't have to rank all candidates - if you rank all the candidates you do like then nothing and no one can transfer your vote over to someone who you don't like. Only your top vote counts, if all your ranked candidates are eliminated (unlikely) then your vote simply doesn't count even if there are unranked names still on your ballot paper.
The AV system is still "one man one vote" |
I know you don't have to rank all candidates and also that you can just vote for one, if need be, I think I mentioned that in the main part of my post, Dean. I thought the least ranked of your votes got transferred to another, so to make up the 50%? That's the part I was querying. So I could rank a Green in 4th, for example and when that candidate gets knocked out, their vote gets added to the one with the most, so that could be a Conservative? Am I wrong in this?
Edited by James - May 02 2011 at 13:08
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:17 |
I don't really care as long as they keep this constituency MP system in place. I have used my MP with great effective when I have run my head into red tape and stupidities from the local council. An email or a personal appearance at the MP's constiuency meeting is a very effective tool to kill off any nonsense. In some cases, the MP cannot do anything but to kick the ball to the local councilors. But that kick itself is very effective because the councilors will listen to the MP and work their socks off for me. That if my complaint is a good one. I very much prefer this constituency MP system instead of the party list we had in Norway which did nothing at all for the local constituent. In countries with party lists, you are nothing as a single person and the red tape and the councils will always win in a conflict. Not so here in the UK.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13795
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:23 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards. |
I've not really taken any notice of campaigning. What is wrong with the campaign for no? |
Shocking scare tactics from a largely reactionary and hostile conservative establishment & media. Getting a Yes to AV will not, as they state, mean a victory for marginal nutters such as BNP or SWP - quite the opposite. And when they say that FPTP has served us well for many years, what they mean is that it has served a Conservative Party very well in keeping them in power for much of the past 150 years.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:40 |
James wrote:
Dean wrote:
James wrote:
and secondly, I may find only one or two candidates suitable and I wouldn't want someone I did like's vote going onto the overall vote of someone else I may not like.
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Say what? You don't have to rank all candidates - if you rank all the candidates you do like then nothing and no one can transfer your vote over to someone who you don't like. Only your top vote counts, if all your ranked candidates are eliminated (unlikely) then your vote simply doesn't count even if there are unranked names still on your ballot paper.
The AV system is still "one man one vote" |
I know you don't have to rank all candidates and also that you can just vote for one, if need be, I think I mentioned that in the main part of my post, Dean.
I thought the least ranked of your votes got transferred to another, so to make up the 50%? That's the part I was querying.
So I could rank a Green in 4th, for example and when that candidate gets knocked out, their vote gets added to the one with the most, so that could be a Conservative?
Am I wrong in this?
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Absolutely and completely wrong James. Only your top vote counts - the "vote" for your bottom ranked candidate wasn't counted anyway so if they are eliminated then it makes no difference.
The AV system is still "one man one vote"
Edited by Dean - May 02 2011 at 13:43
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:43 |
lazland wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards. |
I've not really taken any notice of campaigning. What is wrong with the campaign for no? |
Shocking scare tactics from a largely reactionary and hostile conservative establishment & media. Getting a Yes to AV will not, as they state, mean a victory for marginal nutters such as BNP or SWP - quite the opposite. And when they say that FPTP has served us well for many years, what they mean is that it has served a Conservative Party very well in keeping them in power for much of the past 150 years. |
They have also mounted an emotional campaign over the cost of AV, which contains a lot of misinformation to the point of being disingenuous.
However, that is irrelevant if you've not taken any notice of the campaigning - which begs the question, why are you voting "No"?
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What?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:48 |
Dean wrote:
lazland wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards. |
I've not really taken any notice of campaigning. What is wrong with the campaign for no? |
Shocking scare tactics from a largely reactionary and hostile conservative establishment & media. Getting a Yes to AV will not, as they state, mean a victory for marginal nutters such as BNP or SWP - quite the opposite. And when they say that FPTP has served us well for many years, what they mean is that it has served a Conservative Party very well in keeping them in power for much of the past 150 years. |
They have also mounted an emotional campaign over the cost of AV, which contains a lot of misinformation to the point of being disingenuous.
However, that is irrelevant if you've not taken any notice of the campaigning - which begs the question, why are you voting "No"? |
Because I am happy with the current system and I dislike change. I am anti PR too.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 14:01 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
lazland wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards. |
I've not really taken any notice of campaigning. What is wrong with the campaign for no? |
Shocking scare tactics from a largely reactionary and hostile conservative establishment & media. Getting a Yes to AV will not, as they state, mean a victory for marginal nutters such as BNP or SWP - quite the opposite. And when they say that FPTP has served us well for many years, what they mean is that it has served a Conservative Party very well in keeping them in power for much of the past 150 years. |
They have also mounted an emotional campaign over the cost of AV, which contains a lot of misinformation to the point of being disingenuous.
However, that is irrelevant if you've not taken any notice of the campaigning - which begs the question, why are you voting "No"? |
Because I am happy with the current system and I dislike change. I am anti PR too. |
I take it you are in a safe seat and your chosen cadidate/party always wins then. 
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 14:01 |
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Ah good, then I have only one real issue with AV then. This confirm my Yes vote even more.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 14:16 |
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
lazland wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Dean wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The amount of yes votes here is worrying me. I'm hoping that non proggers vote no. |
From conversations I've had at my workplace I think you've little to worry about - the disinformation and misinformation of the No Campaign propaganda machine has worked its magic and most people really do believe that AV is the work of Satan and all his little wizards. |
I've not really taken any notice of campaigning. What is wrong with the campaign for no? |
Shocking scare tactics from a largely reactionary and hostile conservative establishment & media. Getting a Yes to AV will not, as they state, mean a victory for marginal nutters such as BNP or SWP - quite the opposite. And when they say that FPTP has served us well for many years, what they mean is that it has served a Conservative Party very well in keeping them in power for much of the past 150 years. |
They have also mounted an emotional campaign over the cost of AV, which contains a lot of misinformation to the point of being disingenuous.
However, that is irrelevant if you've not taken any notice of the campaigning - which begs the question, why are you voting "No"? |
Because I am happy with the current system and I dislike change. I am anti PR too. |
I take it you are in a safe seat and your chosen cadidate/party always wins then. |
No
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UK: AV Referendum, your vote?
