My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike

Bonnek wrote: - secondly, a side-effect of this sort of reviewing is that it distorts the top album list for certain genres. To give an example: The only world-famous krautrock band Can has just 1 album in the top 25 Kraut albums. That doesn't make PA into a very reliable resource on krautrock.

harmonium.ro wrote: Bonnek wrote: - secondly, a side-effect of this sort of reviewing is that it distorts the top album list for certain genres. To give an example: The only world-famous krautrock band Can has just 1 album in the top 25 Kraut albums. That doesn't make PA into a very reliable resource on krautrock. I don't agree, the level to which PA is a resource on kraut is directly related to the information PA offers about kraut, not to where are the kraut albums in the charts.

Gulp!
So the only thing you need to know about genres is in the genre description on the genre page?
So why write any reviews at all if they are irrelevant

EDIT: not that I overvalue charts, don't get me wrong


Edited by Bonnek - April 05 2011 at 15:39

Snow Dog wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Snow Dog wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Snow Dog wrote: Evolver wrote: There is nothing unfair about it.   And if an album's rating gets lowered because of it's genre, or the affectations it's musicians adopt, so what?  Ratings should reflect what all members generally think about an album, not just fanboys. What has "fanboys" got to do with it? They tend to write extremely positive reviews with high ratings.  I swear people answer me as if I know nothing. I need to take a break from this place before I blow a f**king fuse. Really now, you get the answers that your questions call for. It would have helped if you developed a bit.  How do fanboys reviews have any bearing on this threads contention? Not so hard to understand is it? Did I ask "What does a fanboy do"?

You asked a VERY general question, so general that it doesn't even hint at what exactly are you thinking. Especially when the post you quoted says exactly what's with the fanboys - their ratings and reviews should be counterbalanced by the haters.

So let me try to get this straight...people should only review albums in genres they generally enjoy, therefore ensuring most bands/albums have a one-sided viewpoint on their value?  That would be horrible, in my opinion.  I don't review things in most subgenres because I don't have things in a lot of the genres, but as long as the review is based on the album's qualities rather than on the genre's qualities as a whole, I don't see it as a bad thing.

harmonium.ro wrote: Bonnek wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Bonnek wrote: - secondly, a side-effect of this sort of reviewing is that it distorts the top album list for certain genres. To give an example: The only world-famous krautrock band Can has just 1 album in the top 25 Kraut albums. That doesn't make PA into a very reliable resource on krautrock. I don't agree, the level to which PA is a resource on kraut is directly related to the information PA offers about kraut, not to where are the kraut albums in the charts.  Gulp! So the only thing you need to know about genres is in the genre description on the genre page? So why write any reviews at all if they are irrelevant EDIT: not that I overvalue charts, don't get me wrong Why would "information" not include the reviews?

Ok I see what you mean there, but in fact you make the exact same point as me then.
A newbie to kraut must read all kraut reviews because the charts are useless (due to non-genre fans reviewing the 'known' albums)

I hate Genesis with a vengeance. But I think I gave all of the Genesis that I bothered to review albums good ratings. You know why I hate Genesis ? It's because of Philly. I can't listen to the crap anymore. Unfortunately I can't listen to any Brand X albums with Philly on them either. Most tragically, I can't bear to listen to Tony Bank's The Two Sides Of Tony Banks very much anymore because Philly is on drums on most of the tracks. The only thing that allows me to tolerate it somewhat these days is the fact that Jan Akkerman turns over a great performance as a side man.

Let me see?  Does what I just said have anything to do with this thread? Not really.

Doing reviews and bios for about 6-7 years here ( wow! That long?! ) I have only dished out two 1 star reviews and of those two, one is for Triumvirat's A la Carte catastrophe. Personally I prefer writing biographies where there is more possibility to give praise to artists rather ripping them to ratsh*t just for the sake of it.

As Lazland points out the site is pretty good at weeding out the jerks.. I can't believe he gave Yes' Drama only one star. What a jerk. Just kidding Lazland . I gave it a 5. It's one of my favourite Yes albums but I just took a look at the my review and it's a sh*t review. But so is your 1 star review. So we have a 2 crappy reviews for Drama here. 1 favourable and one unfavourable. So what does that say about PA? 

Bonnek wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Bonnek wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Bonnek wrote: - secondly, a side-effect of this sort of reviewing is that it distorts the top album list for certain genres. To give an example: The only world-famous krautrock band Can has just 1 album in the top 25 Kraut albums. That doesn't make PA into a very reliable resource on krautrock. I don't agree, the level to which PA is a resource on kraut is directly related to the information PA offers about kraut, not to where are the kraut albums in the charts.  Gulp! So the only thing you need to know about genres is in the genre description on the genre page? So why write any reviews at all if they are irrelevant EDIT: not that I overvalue charts, don't get me wrong Why would "information" not include the reviews? Ok I see what you mean there, but in fact you make the exact same point as me then. A newbie to kraut must read all kraut reviews because the charts are useless (due to non-genre fans reviewing the 'known' albums)

When I was a newbie to prog and found PA, I started exploring each category page, reading the definitions, trying albums from the genre's top rated, following the hints from their reviews, etc. The general chart had nothing do with my musical education here, but it was a lot of fun to observe it.

In a way I agree...but mostly for Rune's point. I'll take RIO/Avant just as an example. Many albums in that category don't have alot of ratings thus a 1 or 2 star review (esp from a collab) really brings the overall rating down. If the album is poor, thats one thing, of course. Not to call anyone who reviews disingenuous when they review, but there are people out there who don't seem to appreciate RIO/Avant (or insert your favorite sub here), yet they continue to listen to and review works from that category. Of course, one has to wonder why someone would continually listen to a genre they didn't care for....but thats another thread all together.

Mellotron Storm wrote: SaltyJon wrote: So let me try to get this straight...people should only review albums in genres they generally enjoy, therefore ensuring most bands/albums have a one-sided viewpoint on their value?  That would be horrible, in my opinion.  I don't review things in most subgenres because I don't have things in a lot of the genres, but as long as the review is based on the album's qualities rather than on the genre's qualities as a whole, I don't see it as a bad thing. That makes way too much sense.

Yes, I'm surprised too how these RIO guys can keep their heads so clear with such disastrous music to listen to.
Someone should rate that whole lot with 1 stars!



Edited by Bonnek - April 05 2011 at 16:02

Bonnek wrote: ^ I wasn't talking about the general chart, couldn't care less, I was talking about the kraut genre chart being totally bonkers.

Didn't notice that. But I still don't see how much this ruins PA's utility as a resource. On the contrary, for me the most useful genre charts are those where there are as many bands as possible, and those charts where one major band has a lot of albums are the least important. A genre chart with 20 albums by 20 different bands is perfect for me, because it's the one that invites the most for research and discovery. Coincidentally this is why I view the krautrock genre chart as probably the best on PA, while others like those of Heavy or Symphonic are down at the bottom of my list of usefulness. How does it help me in exploring Symphonic the fact that the genre chart establishes who the big boys are so well that they occupy by themselves 50% of the whole chart?


Edited by harmonium.ro - April 05 2011 at 16:03