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(De)progressive 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 495
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 Posted: March 09 2011 at 10:15 |
 Vompatti wrote:
To bring a purely subjective view into this, I, for example, have been called insane on numerous occasions. 
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That's something we can all agree I guess. 
Edited by (De)progressive - March 09 2011 at 10:15
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''Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.'' (Friedrich Nietzsche)
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67451
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Posted: March 09 2011 at 10:43 |
I'm sure you realized how I implied that it goes without saying that I'm a genius. 
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(De)progressive
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 495
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Posted: March 09 2011 at 11:02 |
Vompatti wrote:
I'm sure you realized how I implied that it goes without saying that I'm a genius.
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Hahaha no, there are some exceptions. 
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''Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.'' (Friedrich Nietzsche)
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: March 09 2011 at 16:01 |
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As far as I know, it's not a line. It's a giant singing daffodil. I can vouch for this, I've seen it.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 09 2011 at 16:09 |
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a Flower?
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 18:55 |
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duh
duh
duh
duh...
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 19:04 |
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Guess there's no way to ever KNOW if it's true but isn't this a loooooong standing idea?
That there is little difference between being a genius and being crazy.
I think it is absolutely true.
You can see it in your own life. Very brilliant people who are....eccentric. The "crazy" or "weird" professor.
Various artists, or just regular people. I see it all the time.
Let's not forget the stories about Einstein and his difficulty with simple tasks, or how you see smart people that are amazingly forgetful/scatter brained/ inept socially etc
Why? Who knows. IMO something along the lines of...their brains are so good it can't really handle it.
Or something like that.
The line is indeed true though...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:05 |
JJLehto wrote:
Guess there's no way to ever KNOW if it's true but isn't this a loooooong standing idea?
That there is little difference between being a genius and being crazy.
I think it is absolutely true.
You can see it in your own life. Very brilliant people who are....eccentric. The "crazy" or "weird" professor.
Various artists, or just regular people. I see it all the time.
Let's not forget the stories about Einstein and his difficulty with simple tasks, or how you see smart people that are amazingly forgetful/scatter brained/ inept socially etc
Why? Who knows. IMO something along the lines of...their brains are so good it can't really handle it.
Or something like that.
The line is indeed true though...
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None of those things would define that person as crazy - without the genius bit would you describe any of them as insane or suffering from a personality disorder? I think it is simply more noticable in someone who is gifted than in anyone else because of the disparity - for example in all of us there are things we are good at and things we are hopeless at - since the gap between those "talents" is reletively small we don't notice them as readily - so when I can't remember where I put down the pen I was using two minutes earlier it's not a big deal, but when a "genius" does it he's a forgetful scatter brain...
Einstein was dyslexic - dyslexia is a little more than having problems with words and can account for his difficulty with simple tasks (as you put it), other famous dyslexics include Beethoven, Lenoardo da Vinci, Picasso, Richard Branson, Thomas Edison and Hans Christian Anderson. (Before anyone jumps on my back, I know dyslexia is not a mental illness, but it is a neurological disorder) - yet there are thousands upon thousands of dyslexics (it is estimated that between 5 and 10% of the population are) and not all of them are geniuses, and there are many more "genius" musicians, artists, inventors, scientists, entrepreneurs and authors who are not dyslexic.
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What?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:35 |
No, but still I think it all helps goes to prove my point. You mention dyslexia, it can always be coincidence of course but all those great minds having dyslexia? OK, maybe in only a very few cases is the line between insane and genius that blurred, but as a general....great minds tend to be odd in some way. I think because it just can't handle their power!!!! And you have a good point about us labeling someone "scatter brained" once we think them a genius, but my one friend is no genius, but is a very forgetful scatter brain and I have no problem letting him know it.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:35 |
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I am officially diagnosing my son with OCD.
He has incredible intelligence in terms of labeling things and processing information.
However, he has no concept of cause and effect.
He knows exactly how his train table should be, which includes over 100 pieces, yet he goes berserk if a piece of cargo is turned the wrong way in one of the many freight cars among the ensemble. It's baffling.
The boy is intelligent, yet small changes in routine or environment or the placement of cars or trains sets him into an inconsolable frenzy.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:48 |
Epignosis wrote:
I am officially diagnosing my son with OCD.
He has incredible intelligence in terms of labeling things and processing information.
However, he has no concept of cause and effect.
He knows exactly how his train table should be, which includes over 100 pieces, yet he goes berserk if a piece of cargo is turned the wrong way in one of the many freight cars among the ensemble. It's baffling.
The boy is intelligent, yet small changes in routine or environment or the placement of cars or trains sets him into an inconsolable frenzy.
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Knowing someone with OCD is equal parts amusing, frustrating and baffling, though the amusing part soon disipates once you've deliberately messed things up just to watch them fret over it. (just kidding, I only did it once by way of an experiment). So much more pressing problems were manifest during that time I can't remember if we did anything about it or just left her to it - certainly it was the least of our immediate worries at the time and sometimes knowing that all the unused power sockets where switched off, or how many sugar sachets were in the condiment tray in a resturant (and that they were neatly arranged in order) was a good thing. [Not sure what I'm waffling on about, other than attempting to reassure you it's nothing to worry about in itself]... excessive washing was a problem, but only because over-use of Carex handwash was having a negative reaction - replacing carex with a more gentle soap fixed that.
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:53 |
JJLehto wrote:
No, but still I think it all helps goes to prove my point.
You mention dyslexia, it can always be coincidence of course but all those great minds having dyslexia?
OK, maybe in only a very few cases is the line between insane and genius that blurred, but as a general....great minds tend to be odd in some way. I think because it just can't handle their power!!!!
And you have a good point about us labeling someone "scatter brained" once we think them a genius, but my one friend is no genius, but is a very forgetful scatter brain and I have no problem letting him know it.
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I still think it is an over generalisation and an erroreous correlation. As I said, many more great minds didn't have dyslexia. Coincidence does happen, that's why someone invented a word for it.
Your last point illustrates mine too - a scatter-brain is not necessarily a genius, and a genius is not necessarily a scatter-brain, therefore zero correlation.
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What?
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:54 |
Look up Asperger's....and then before we all say "Hey that's me."
ADHD is cannot keep attention on anything that's not moving 100 mph.
Asperger's includes attention so hyperacute that they seem like geniuses in what they pay attention to...and maybe they are.
So the question becomes "Does intelligence = attention?"
This from a guy who went to a high school that only accepts the top of 0.1% and I know there are several people on this board quite a bit brighter than me, and equal to the top students at my school.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:54 |
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Well now that you've settled that Dean I guess that makes you some type of genius!
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 20:57 |
Dean wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I am officially diagnosing my son with OCD.
He has incredible intelligence in terms of labeling things and processing information.
However, he has no concept of cause and effect.
He knows exactly how his train table should be, which includes over 100 pieces, yet he goes berserk if a piece of cargo is turned the wrong way in one of the many freight cars among the ensemble. It's baffling.
The boy is intelligent, yet small changes in routine or environment or the placement of cars or trains sets him into an inconsolable frenzy.
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Knowing someone with OCD is equal parts amusing, frustrating and baffling, though the amusing part soon disipates once you've deliberately messed things up just to watch them fret over it. (just kidding, I only did it once by way of an experiment). So much more pressing problems were manifest during that time I can't remember if we did anything about it or just left her to it - certainly it was the least of our immediate worries at the time and sometimes knowing that all the unused power sockets where switched off, or how many sugar sachets were in the condiment tray in a resturant (and that they were neatly arranged in order) was a good thing. [Not sure what I'm waffling on about, other than attempting to reassure you it's nothing to worry about in itself]... excessive washing was a problem, but only because over-use of Carex handwash was having a negative reaction - replacing carex with a more gentle soap fixed that. |
No hand washing (except when he sh*ts) is any problem. For us, it's order in his room or in a select few other aspects of life. His sister is very brilliant for a one-year-old, and will, well f**k things up for him. Whatever she does that is different (in any way) than what he expects, he will go crazy.
I work at home, Dean. I need the money to support us. Yet he drives me batsh*t insane. 
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 21:00 |
Negoba wrote:
Look up Asperger's....and then before we all say "Hey that's me."
ADHD is cannot keep attention on anything that's not moving 100 mph.
Asperger's includes attention so hyperacute that they seem like geniuses in what they pay attention to...and maybe they are.
So the question becomes "Does intelligence = attention?"
This from a guy who went to a high school that only accepts the top of 0.1% and I know there are several people on this board quite a bit brighter than me, and equal to the top students at my school.
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He can maintain attention on something for hours. I am sure attention isn't a problem- he doesn't get cause and effect and he expects order in his life (even if this order varies from what mom and dad expect).
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 21:08 |
So Rob, after dealing with lots of "gifted" people. The line between "Asperger's" and "gifted" is mild. You're a smart guy. I suspect you married a smart girl. We're living in a era of selective breeding for uber-nerds. (Mine are 10 and 8, if I'm projecting on you ignore me.)
So frankly, I'm preparing my kids for being out of the norm. While it doesn't take a gifted person to appreciate prog, this is one of a million places on the net that is going to accumulate really smart people. It's a different reality from normal human existence.
For example, the guy the played rhythm guitar in the Metallica cover band that I played in in 1991 helped write the orignal program for Netscape that is now Mozilla. He's a millionaire. But he's just another guy like us that likes music and is smart.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 21:08 |
Negoba wrote:
Look up Asperger's....and then before we all say "Hey that's me."
ADHD is cannot keep attention on anything that's not moving 100 mph.
Asperger's includes attention so hyperacute that they seem like geniuses in what they pay attention to...and maybe they are.
So the question becomes "Does intelligence = attention?"
This from a guy who went to a high school that only accepts the top of 0.1% and I know there are several people on this board quite a bit brighter than me, and equal to the top students at my school.
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I don't believe that ADD ADHD, whatever you want to call it, is not real. I think that it is just the people who make pills and other junk's ways of making money. How do I know this? Well it seems that over half of the people in my grade have either ADD or ADHD. This is completly absurd. How can over 100 random people in one school have one similar disease? Sure the pills help them concentrate or whatever, but they help ANYONE concentrate because it is a drug, it can have more or less the same effect for everyone. I believe that what people believe to be ADD/ADHD is simply the person's personality.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 21:09 |
Epignosis wrote:
Dean wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I am officially diagnosing my son with OCD.
He has incredible intelligence in terms of labeling things and processing information.
However, he has no concept of cause and effect.
He knows exactly how his train table should be, which includes over 100 pieces, yet he goes berserk if a piece of cargo is turned the wrong way in one of the many freight cars among the ensemble. It's baffling.
The boy is intelligent, yet small changes in routine or environment or the placement of cars or trains sets him into an inconsolable frenzy.
|
Knowing someone with OCD is equal parts amusing, frustrating and baffling, though the amusing part soon disipates once you've deliberately messed things up just to watch them fret over it. (just kidding, I only did it once by way of an experiment). So much more pressing problems were manifest during that time I can't remember if we did anything about it or just left her to it - certainly it was the least of our immediate worries at the time and sometimes knowing that all the unused power sockets where switched off, or how many sugar sachets were in the condiment tray in a resturant (and that they were neatly arranged in order) was a good thing. [Not sure what I'm waffling on about, other than attempting to reassure you it's nothing to worry about in itself]... excessive washing was a problem, but only because over-use of Carex handwash was having a negative reaction - replacing carex with a more gentle soap fixed that. |
No hand washing (except when he sh*ts) is any problem. For us, it's order in his room or in a select few other aspects of life. His sister is very brilliant for a one-year-old, and will, well f**k things up for him. Whatever she does that is different (in any way) than what he expects, he will go crazy.
I work at home, Dean. I need the money to support us. Yet he drives me batsh*t insane.
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I can sympathise Rob, unfortunately you have to adapt to it of find some way of working around it, since any change you try and make can make things worse - certainly talking to your GP is the first step.
I was talking to one parent during a family "support" session for parents of kids with eating disorders who complained that her daughter was always vacuuming the carpets. "Surely that's a good thing" I said - "Not at 3 o'clock in the *%$@ing morning it's not!" came the reply.
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What?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 21:17 |
Dean wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Dean wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I am officially diagnosing my son with OCD.
He has incredible intelligence in terms of labeling things and processing information.
However, he has no concept of cause and effect.
He knows exactly how his train table should be, which includes over 100 pieces, yet he goes berserk if a piece of cargo is turned the wrong way in one of the many freight cars among the ensemble. It's baffling.
The boy is intelligent, yet small changes in routine or environment or the placement of cars or trains sets him into an inconsolable frenzy.
|
Knowing someone with OCD is equal parts amusing, frustrating and baffling, though the amusing part soon disipates once you've deliberately messed things up just to watch them fret over it. (just kidding, I only did it once by way of an experiment). So much more pressing problems were manifest during that time I can't remember if we did anything about it or just left her to it - certainly it was the least of our immediate worries at the time and sometimes knowing that all the unused power sockets where switched off, or how many sugar sachets were in the condiment tray in a resturant (and that they were neatly arranged in order) was a good thing. [Not sure what I'm waffling on about, other than attempting to reassure you it's nothing to worry about in itself]... excessive washing was a problem, but only because over-use of Carex handwash was having a negative reaction - replacing carex with a more gentle soap fixed that. |
No hand washing (except when he sh*ts) is any problem. For us, it's order in his room or in a select few other aspects of life. His sister is very brilliant for a one-year-old, and will, well f**k things up for him. Whatever she does that is different (in any way) than what he expects, he will go crazy.
I work at home, Dean. I need the money to support us. Yet he drives me batsh*t insane.
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I can sympathise Rob, unfortunately you have to adapt to it of find some way of working around it, since any change you try and make can make things worse - certainly talking to your GP is the first step.
I was talking to one parent during a family "support" session for parents of kids with eating disorders who complained that her daughter was always vacuuming the carpets. "Surely that's a good thing" I said - "Not at 3 o'clock in the *%$@ing morning it's not!" came the reply. |
We don't have a GP (around here, it's a Family Physician)- a visit will cost us $150 or so- $140 more than we have at the moment. We took him to five professionals in Florida when we lived there and, sorry to say, they are all dumbasses. "No madam, our son does not suffer from depression and does not need special meds."
Eating disorders- funny you should mention that. Our son eats nothing but pasta, dairy, or yeast rolls. He might also eat chicken nuggets. He likes ice cream too. He refuses to eat fruits,vegetables, or anything else. It's not because they are veggies, but because they differ in color- he will eat some bread I bake if it is one color, but not other bread if it looks "funny" to him. We sometimes are successful in forcing a vitamin down his gullet, but it's a painful experience (for all of us).
His biggest thing is not being able to communicate well and not understanding cause and effect- I am hoping against hope that he grows out of this.
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The thin line between insanity and genius.
