the missing link between prog and punk!

^ we know, already- you don't like punk and refuse to give any ground. If you find it to be too soft on the punk issue around here, you could always try a country music forum ).

TMV has a thorough punk influence that is immediately obvious to anyone who can tell the difference between MTV-friendly emo and The Fall. Sure, you can fool yourself that all punk is three chords and shouting, but that's the same mental reductionism that claims prog is just odd time-signatures and pomposity. Trying to identify the specific punk influence in TMV is like trying to identify the difference that the blues made to the Rolling Stones...

I wouldn't compare the DKs to prog, just like I wouldn't compare Rush with John Cage...it's apples and oranges. But basically, the level of musicianship and discipline among the various members of the DKs was at a fairly high standard- not just 'for punk' but for any non-virtuoso genre of music, which includes a majority of prog. The quality of songwriting was incredibly high; lyrically, Biafra (an admitted fan of Zeuhl) rarely disappoints in any of his projects...whereas a fair number of prog bands can be said to suffer in that respect.

Do they belong filed next to Yes in your collection? Of course not...but IMAO they wouldn't sound too out of place next to Zappa, for instance...

James Lee wrote: ^ we know, already- you don't like punk and refuse to give any ground. If you find it to be too soft on the punk issue around here, you could always try a country music forum ).

Hardy-har

James Lee wrote: TMV has a thorough punk influence that is immediately obvious to anyone who can tell the difference between MTV-friendly emo and The Fall.

How so?

James Lee wrote: Sure, you can fool yourself that all punk is three chords and shouting, but that's the same mental reductionism that claims prog is just odd time-signatures and pomposity.

No it isn't, perhaps punk music has grown different over time (Although it still fails to impress me) but three chords and shouting was the original idea, while the idea of prog was to expand the idea of what popular music can be. I always thought punk had the opposite intentions. I guess I'm just ignorant for not following it well enough to see any large change in it, but then again people like you haven't made much of an effort to tell me.

James Lee wrote: Trying to identify the specific punk influence in TMV is like trying to identify the difference that the blues made to the Rolling Stones...

Oh, come on, don't compare the Rolling Stones, a group who took the blues and changed it to fit thier liking, to The Mars Volta, who must have completely rearranged the idea of what punk music should be if any was used in thier music. That's like saying rnb influenced Presly in the same way that the blues influenced Nirvana.

But if any punk was incorporated in The Mars Volta's music, the least you could do is try to explain how to me instead of saying it's impossible.

James Lee wrote: I wouldn't compare the DKs to prog, just like I wouldn't compare Rush with John Cage...it's apples and oranges.

Why not compare them? Different things can be compared. And I was asking how they compared not because I saw no prog in thier music, but because I've never heard any.

James Lee wrote: But basically, the level of musicianship and discipline among the various members of the DKs was at a fairly high standard- not just 'for punk' but for any non-virtuoso genre of music, which includes a majority of prog. The quality of songwriting was incredibly high; lyrically, Biafra (an admitted fan of Zeuhl) rarely disappoints in any of his projects...whereas a fair number of prog bands can be said to suffer in that respect.

Technical musicianship may transend the genre of punk rock, but have they done anything that transends popular music? I'm actually asking, I don't know. If thier music truly is that technical, maybe they don't even fit in the punk genre.

James Lee wrote: Do they belong filed next to Yes in your collection? Of course not...but IMAO they wouldn't sound too out of place next to Zappa, for instance...

Is that because they're innovative, or because they're music can sometimes be silly?

amused 2 KAOS wrote: yes, i beleive it exists, and it can easily (for the most part) be found at your local cd shop. it is "frankenchrist" by the dead kennedys. the reason why i say this is because 1.have you heard of a punk album that takes up both sides thats only 10 SONGS LONG!?!!!?!?!?? 2.its a punk album that only has 1 song that is traditionally punk on the whole album, most of the others are very prog like. 3.most of the songs are about 5 minutes long (which is right about in between punk and prog song lengths)

Let's agree on something. It's not because a band do long songs that it's progressive! Prog music got tons emotions, great instrumentation, and all, it not just music with long songs!

Also, please, people, stop saying you think every bands you like are prog! It's possible, in your life, you will encounter a band you like, and that this band will not be prog... It,s possible really...