Rap Music's Place In Prog

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   Yeah I'm not talking about rap-rock- that certainly exists with good artists like Ill Bill (as opposed to the awful Limp Bizkit/Linkin Park etc rubbish). I'm talking about prog rap.

Another guy that comes to mind is Del The Funky Homosapien. His key album is Deltron 3030. It's a concept rap opera set in the year 3030 which tells the story of Galactic Rhyme Federation Champion Deltron Zero battling the evil government of the dystopia he lives in. Oh come on, it's not any sillier than 2112.

The album also features Sean Lennon and is the birthplace of Gorillaz- it was produced by Dan The Automator and Damon Albarn turns up on the first track.

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Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 08 2009 at 14:05
	Yeah I'm not talking about rap-rock- that certainly exists with good artists like Ill Bill (as opposed to the awful Limp Bizkit/Linkin Park etc rubbish). I'm talking about prog rap. Another guy that comes to mind is Del The Funky Homosapien. His key album is Deltron 3030. It's a concept rap opera set in the year 3030 which tells the story of Galactic Rhyme Federation Champion Deltron Zero battling the evil government of the dystopia he lives in. Oh come on, it's not any sillier than 2112. The album also features Sean Lennon and is the birthplace of Gorillaz- it was produced by Dan The Automator and Damon Albarn turns up on the first track.

rushfan4 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66290	Posted: October 08 2009 at 14:13
	I realize that, but my point being that if rap can be mixed with rock as it is with those bands, I'm sure that it could be mixed with prog as well. I don't know this Ill Bill and how his quality is somehow better than other rap-rock artists. I'm not saying that either prog fans or rap/hip hop fans would enjoy it, but I'm sure it could be done.


Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 08 2009 at 14:21
	Ill Bill's something of a meathead actually- his music is not intellectual- but he's good rocking fun whereas Limp Bizkit just sounded terrible. If you want to hear him try a song called Trust Nobody. He also made a good song out of Dragonforce samples called White n****r. (I know the N word's a no-no, I say it because it's the name of the song and secondly because the song is stridently anti-racist, a cry of rage from the caucasian Jewish Bill against those who insult him because they think hip-hop is only for black people.) Back to prog type stuff, there's also a bizarre MC called Doom who even dresses up in costume on stage like a Genesis era Peter Gabriel. Doom usually dresses as Doctor Doom from Fantastic Four, rapping even with the mask on. He made a full-length collaboration with oddball producer Madlib called Madvillainy that was very unusual and byzantine. IDoom is also worth checking out for Mmm Food, an entire rap album about food.

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: October 08 2009 at 14:39
	What came up for Aesop Rock and El-P on youtube was not promising. Culturally what rap is about is not real compatible with what prog is about...but people break rules all the time. There's a long line of literate, smart rappers, but the music is just not about nuance or complexity. I had a roomate who was very into rap for several years, and I enjoyed it for what it was. But I these days I just can't get into music with virtually no harmony or melody. That's just me.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

Logan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36036	Posted: October 08 2009 at 15:00
	Edited by Logan - October 08 2009 at 15:00
	Duos for fave acts

Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 08 2009 at 15:19
	There are also quality concept albums in rap. Two that spring to mind are A prince Among Thieves by Prince Paul and A Day In The Life by Sticky Fingaz. Both are mostly typical hip-hop in content, but tell a complete narrative from beginning to end with different vocalists playing characters and so forth.

frinspar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2008 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 463	Posted: October 08 2009 at 15:34
	Logan, I listened to those samples. I think, despite the larger attempt at samples and instrumentation not typically found in mainstream rap, it's really still just rap. Just not the usual garbage on the radio or in videos. The structure is still intrinsically that of rap/hip-hop that really hasn't expanded outside of any known boundary.

Logan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36036	Posted: October 08 2009 at 16:40
	Yeah, guess you're right, frinspar. Even the collaboration with Faust (one of the big names of Krautrock, and a favoured band by me) isn't really structurally progressive, I think. Still, this album should interest a number here: 3.42 \| 4 ratings FAUST vs. DÄLEK - Derbe Respect, Alder 2004 Maybe we'll have to wait until "Rap in Opposition" catches fire. I know I've heard some pretty experimental bands that made rap with fairly unusual structures and instrumentation such as "live" violins and cello (I don't really like rap to be honest, but I've been looking to find some "chamber rap" artists and good and original cosmic jazz rap) on a CBC (Canadian radio) radio arts programme (but I don't remember the names). Some of the best sounding I've heard has been pure mish-mash with rap dubs, but I'd rather hear more original compositions. At least Dr. Daneil Bernard Roumain is a very talented guy whose been active in hip-hop (though the greater world of hip-hop I can enjoy). TO be honest, it's not really a style I've explored that much, but thought I'd post those and see what others thought (to me they didn't really sound atypical structurally either). Edited by Logan - October 08 2009 at 16:41
	Duos for fave acts

Negoba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 24 2008 Location: Big Muddy Status: Offline Points: 5208	Posted: October 08 2009 at 16:53
	I liked the Id Obelus...those are great samples but that's a total of about 30 minutes tops on a recording surface. For a studio guy like Devin Townsend, about twice through the mix. The lyrics are sometimes quite good but even the vocal rhythms just aren't that compelling most of the time. When someone finds an interesting new way to phrase (Bone Thugs) it get completely used up within a year. I'd personally rather listen to Ani DiFranco who eclipses all this including this.
	You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.

frinspar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2008 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 463	Posted: October 08 2009 at 17:01
	Oh, I applaud the offerings, Logan. And whether or not they moved me (didn't, but I didn't dislike them either) it's worth the effort to give them a listen. I do think it sounds like there is a desire to expand the scope of rap and hip-hop, but I just don't see that it really has a chance of expanding into the area of prog. The styles are just much to incongruous to ever truly combine effectively, or even realistically. Maybe someday, someone will find that "missing link" and mesh them triumphantly, but it just seems a bit of a reach to me.

Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 08 2009 at 17:30
	There's also Sonic Sum who are very serious and artistic, but they also suck unfortunately.

Icarium Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: March 21 2008 Location: Tigerstaden Status: Offline Points: 34055	Posted: October 08 2009 at 17:47
	I like Outkast and for a "mainstreem" rap group they certanly are a very creative duo with some grate albums with some great arangments. (they have even sampled Focus - Focus III on there album ATLiens on the song Wheelz of Steel) and have a lot of Psychadelia, Jazz, Electronica, funk, rock and soul elements

Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 08 2009 at 18:41
	Outkast were certainly very creative and went outside the boxes. They also used a live band in concerts.

Xanthous Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Dayton, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 207	Posted: October 09 2009 at 18:43
	I love early 90's rap but it's way to commercialized now.Personally, I really enjoy listening to some Hip-Hop with funky beats but the whole pure rap music thing is just insanely awful. It should be a niche genre. Rap can be Progressive, but it certainly isn't at this time. Edited by Xanthous - October 09 2009 at 18:45

verslibre Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17263	Posted: October 09 2009 at 18:52
	Material (Bill Laswell's 70s/80s band) experimented in rock, funk and even rap. At least one of the rap songs was actually likeable (and the instrumentation was spiffy) but this was before rap lyrics took a turn for the grotesque.
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Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 09 2009 at 19:46
	Organised Konfusion were another act that felt prog at times. Oh but on the broader topic of alternative rap, has anyone ever listened to any nerdcore? Nerdcore are mostly online rappers who come from outside hip-hop and just rap about anything they like (the cliche is geeky pop culture) and use any musical influences they like too- it's rarely serious enough to qualify as prog but the wierd mash of subject matter and sounds do have a wiff of prog to them. Significant nerdcore acts include MC Lars, MC Chris, MC Frontalot, Optimus Rhymes, Beefy, MC Router and YT Cracker. Oh and you should listen to MC Paul Barman because he is hilarious.

Dellinger Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12732	Posted: October 09 2009 at 20:44
	I read some time ago in the Yes official site that Jon Anderson was looking for someone with experience in Rap or Hip Hop for some project he had in mind. Never knew exactly what Anderson was thinking about and so far there's been no more news that I know of.

Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 09 2009 at 23:43
	If there's any DJs out there, the market's wide open on some hip-hop prog remixes. I myself once made a beat out of Roulette Dares by The Mars Volta. Speaking of TMV though, they've got some rap connects. They've collabed with El-P and Handsome Boy Modelling School and keyboardist Ikey Owens did a full-length with rapper 2Mex (under the name Look Daggers) called Suffer In Style. Go to Youtube and check out the Look Daggers track Falcon Gentle, I really dug that.

lucas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138	Posted: October 10 2009 at 01:36
	A rapper that is somewhat enjoyable to listen to but without connection to prog : P.O.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL5Wh4gnzyo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5emV4WTi-Y&feature=related The closer to prog I know is the hardcore band Candiria, with a black vocalist who is sort of schizophrenic as he has the typical hardcore screaming voice on the hardcore tunes and the rapping voice on the rap tunes of the same band...check out some excerpts here : http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/album-groupe-Candiria-nom_album-300_Percent_Density-l-fr.html#mp3
	"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)

Textbook Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 3281	Posted: October 10 2009 at 01:57
	Yeah, POS has been getting a lot of attention this year. Not proggy, but his group, Doomtree, can be rather strange.