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Peter 
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 Posted: November 21 2007 at 23:04 |
As they say, Freehand is classic GG, but there's still some good prog to be found on the other two, particularly on The Missing Piece.
For example, listen again to Memories of Old Days. (Crank it up, too.) If that isn't good prog (and a lovely song with a moving, nostalgic sentiment to boot) I'll eat my head!
Don't judge these albums too quickly, especially Freehand. Listen to Talybont and His Last Voyage again. Not prog? Not good? Think again!
(please!)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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IVNORD
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Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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Points: 1191
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Posted: November 24 2007 at 23:00 |
 walrushound wrote:
About a year ago i bought 3 gentle giant re issue( anniversary editions or something)
I purchased all three cds the store carried which were THe Missing Piece, Giant For A Day, and Free Hand. Theres was nothing that really caught my attention and i didnt really think they sounded very "prog". Are these the wrong albums to start with? I hope to listen to these albums again in the next few days for a second opinion.
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The Missing Piece is just that. The only real GG prog piece there is As Old As You’re Young. Memories is kinda prog but it’s really not. Giant for a Day is a loose collection of songs which have nothing to do with prog. Their last album , Civilian is a total waste of money.
Of their first 8 albums I would start with Octopus. It’s a graet record and the most accessible overall, though some tracks are pretty hard to get into (like River – a beautiful piece). Free Hand can be next. It is about the same level but a bit more complex. Acquiring the Taste, Glass House, The Power and the Glory, and Interview are excellent and more complex, Interview being the most difficult one (Design is the weirdest and one of the best there). The eponymous album and Three Friends are “simpler” but excellent too. Playing the fool is a great live album.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29995
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 04:58 |
I found Power and The Glory the easiest GG album to get into.Not too complex compared to In A Glass House which takes a lot more attention to appreciate IMO.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 09:34 |
IVNORD wrote:
The Missing Piece is just that. The only real GG prog piece there is As Old As You’re Young. Memories is kinda prog but it’s really not. Giant for a Day is a loose collection of songs which have nothing to do with prog. Their last album , Civilian is a total waste of money.
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 Those are opinions (of course), presented as facts. I could easily say similar disparaging things about "prog" metal. (But I wouldn't dare!  )
Define "prog" to the satisfaction of all listeners, please.
In any case, call it what you will, I still find some material worthy of inclusion in the Giant oeuvre, on those latter-day albums. They're not as bold and original, certainly, but they're not total radio-friendly "sellouts," either. (At least to ME.) 
I bought those albums when they came out, and my friends and I (Giant fans for some years) always liked The Missing Piece. It was different, yes, but we still had the great old stuff, and most bands can't (and shouldn't) just keep cranking out the same old formula. Maybe I'm just more musically open-minded and tolerant of artistic diversification, growth and change -- more of a music fan, than just a "prog" fan.
I agree that GFAD is weak overall, though. As with TMP, Civillian got a lot of play in my circle, "back in the day," despite it being a radical departure from the earlier sound. (Some who weren't confirmed Giant or prog fans even enjoyed it.)
So, to sum up, I do know where you're coming from, but I think you're being much too harsh -- too muched the cliched, elitist Progressive Rock fan. "Commercial" is a relative term. As with Genesis, Floyd and Yes, even at their most "commercial," GG still made some worthwhile, very original music! 
In My Humble Opinion....
Edited by Peter - November 25 2007 at 09:37
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 13:26 |
Norbert wrote:
Free Hand is great. I have not heard any post Interview album but they are said to be generally not so great. |
Listen to them and become enlightened. Gentle Giant never completely sold out unlike that other band that starts with the letter " G " .
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AnonyMIDI
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 25 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 22:02 |
No, Giant didn't sell out. They burned out. If they were true to themselves they must have known that. Not sure when it happened, for instance, whether before the breakup or after, But Derek wound up with a real job at a major record label (think it was Polygram-- don't even know if he's still there). Think about almost any prog band. How long is their half-life before they begin the downward spiral? It gets harder to come up with material after a while. Yes, there may be an exception or two, but generally the flower fades and falls leaving room for new growth. (Eek! Am I waxing philosophical?) But really, when it all comes down to it, music is a hobby. It's great when it can be turned into a way to support yourself, but that's really not the point, is it? Art is art. Comes from deep within. Then you realize you have to pay the bills...
I happened to notice that in this entire thread not one mention was made of the first Giant album. It was the one the had the same cover as Three Friends, but with an entirely different listing of songs, one of which was Alucard. Can't remember the others. Not sure I would have recommended it for a new GG listener.
Funny how we all are taken by different albums. It's just like food, no? We have a taste that we acquire from the tunes. Also depends on your point of view. From a musician's standpoint I might hear the specific timing changes (and worse, know what they are!) as opposed to being a listener (yeah, I can be both...) who just takes in the whole of the song.
GG were quite the mathmeticians. Some might even say there was no feeling in their songs simply because of the "technicity" of the songs they did. Tell you what, though-- I've seen Yes, Genesis, ELP, Renaissance, etc, but saw GG twice simply because of the way they could blend simple things into a complex song. In fact, as a musician who played some of their songs live in days gone by, I found the individual parts as quite patternistic and relatively simple. Put them all together and it doesn't sound like it, though!
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Prog is not a capital city! There isn't much capital to gain by it...
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 22:11 |
Peter wrote:
His Last Voyage |
Such a phenomenal piece. Every time my dad picks up a bass, that is the first thing he plays on it. That bass line is a part of my psyche.
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Asyte2c00
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Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 2099
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Posted: November 25 2007 at 22:18 |
Question. Why did Gentle Giant play the same setlist at every show from 1973 to their demise?
Save "Two Weeks in Spain" I want to hear "Giant" and "Alucard" and "Way of Life" in concert.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: November 26 2007 at 00:12 |
Peter wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
The Missing Piece is just that. The only real GG prog piece there is As Old As You’re Young. Memories is kinda prog but it’s really not. Giant for a Day is a loose collection of songs which have nothing to do with prog. Their last album , Civilian is a total waste of money.
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Those are opinions (of course), presented as facts. I could easily say similar disparaging things about "prog" metal. (But I wouldn't dare!)
Define "prog" to the satisfaction of all listeners, please.
Of course those are opinions. As are yours. Writing IMO or IMHO at the end of the message doesn’t make it any clearer. It’s implied when it comes to personal tastes and preferences. Now by asking for my prog definition, you’re asking for more of my opinions as there is no clear standard set. I’ve already said it in the Family vs GG poll. What defines prog rock and makes it so different from simply rock is the complexity of the musical composition. I understand that my definition effectively excludes from the ranks most of the bands listed in PA, but again it’s my opinion. I believe prog died in the late 70’s. From time to time I find "later" bands I like, but those instances are rare (some Miriodor albums).
So, to sum up, I do know where you're coming from, but I think you're being much too harsh -- too muched the cliched, elitist Progressive Rock fan. "Commercial" is a relative term. As with Genesis, Floyd and Yes, even at their most "commercial," GG still made some worthwhile, very original music!
This elitist label is generally silly. Reminds me of “pretentious.” By default you acquire some kind of elitist status since prog is more esoteric than the mainstream rock, but so is classical music. I don't remember those guys to be branded as elititsts. It’s really a matter of taste.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Points: 9669
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Posted: November 26 2007 at 08:18 |
^ Fine, Ivnord.
I guess that with those latter-day GG albums, and Walrushound's purchase of them, I'm just trying to be more optimistic and less cynical, and "see the cup as half full" (of prog -- rather than totally empty, or full of pop crap).
We've each made our points and outlooks clear. Thank you.
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: November 26 2007 at 09:29 |
AnonyMIDI wrote:
No, Giant didn't sell out. They burned out. If they were true to themselves they must have known that. Not sure when it happened, for instance, whether before the breakup or after, But Derek wound up with a real job at a major record label (think it was Polygram-- don't even know if he's still there). Think about almost any prog band. How long is their half-life before they begin the downward spiral? It gets harder to come up with material after a while. Yes, there may be an exception or two, but generally the flower fades and falls leaving room for new growth. (Eek! Am I waxing philosophical?) But really, when it all comes down to it, music is a hobby. It's great when it can be turned into a way to support yourself, but that's really not the point, is it? Art is art. Comes from deep within. Then you realize you have to pay the bills...
I happened to notice that in this entire thread not one mention was made of the first Giant album. It was the one the had the same cover as Three Friends, but with an entirely different listing of songs, one of which was Alucard. Can't remember the others. Not sure I would have recommended it for a new GG listener.
Funny how we all are taken by different albums. It's just like food, no? We have a taste that we acquire from the tunes. Also depends on your point of view. From a musician's standpoint I might hear the specific timing changes (and worse, know what they are!) as opposed to being a listener (yeah, I can be both...) who just takes in the whole of the song.
GG were quite the mathmeticians. Some might even say there was no feeling in their songs simply because of the "technicity" of the songs they did. Tell you what, though-- I've seen Yes, Genesis, ELP, Renaissance, etc, but saw GG twice simply because of the way they could blend simple things into a complex song. In fact, as a musician who played some of their songs live in days gone by, I found the individual parts as quite patternistic and relatively simple. Put them all together and it doesn't sound like it, though! |
What do you mean it had the same cover as Three Friends? Check the archives.I assume you`re talking about the North American re-issues. While I`m here I`m making it against the law to say bad things about Gentle Giant. If you hear ANYONE making bad statements towards Gentle Giant immediately make a citizen`s arrest and turn the guilty parties into the local police.
Edited by Vibrationbaby - November 26 2007 at 09:33
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AnonyMIDI
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 25 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Posted: November 26 2007 at 20:00 |
OK, it may have been a reissue, but I had both albums at one time. I went and looked at the archives and saw the cover of Three Friends. That's not the one I had. In fact, I noticed Three Friends pop up in the Amazon ad just above it-- It did have the cover that I had. I may have learned something here. I've actually never seen the "true" Three Friends cover then. So, the US edition used the first album's cover?
Oh, and BTW, it just so happens that GG is my fav prog band (not all of their stuff, i.e. Citizen, GFAD). I'm more toward the early years... In my days playing in a prog band it was tough to convince the other members to play anything by GG. They leaned toward Genesis (not that I complained much). When we finally chose to do Free Hand I thought we were on the road to recovery. Then they picked Two Weeks in Spain... So I won't say anything bad about them. Just read between the ellipsis...
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Prog is not a capital city! There isn't much capital to gain by it...
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: November 27 2007 at 11:13 |
I have the original UK release on vinyl which is the one depicted on PA. I checked the official GG website but it didn`t explain why the American cover used the same artwork as their debut. I`ll find out from a friend who is a Gentle Giant fanatic.I used to know this dammit ! Two Weeks In Spain rocks. It seems that people who are introduced to progressive rock by the music of Yes, Genesis or Jethro Tull are taken aback by the esoteric qualities of GGs music. I picked up on GG at a pretty young age ( around 14 ) after getting into Focus. I`m actually listening to Interview right now  .
Edited by Vibrationbaby - November 27 2007 at 11:14
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