Phil Collins For Addition as Prog-Related |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:27 | |||
Probably entirely true. But there are kids out there whose first exposure to Phil Collins would be that very same Tarzan II movie that Philippe posted. Probably remote, but maybe there is hope to convert someone while they are still young and convertible.
Maybe even more remote, but just maybe, Phil would happen to google himself (instead of his usual googling his prog fans) and come across the site and see his name on a prog site and remember that he is a prog musician and decide to record some more prog music. Probably never happen in this time continuum but what the heck I thought I would throw it out there.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:28 | |||
Sorry yes. That's right. I knew it involved somebody who was a really good keyboard player. Memory lapse on who it was. Edited by rushfan4 - November 15 2007 at 20:28 |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:29 | |||
Absolutely, and I fully respect your opinion.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:37 | |||
Probably best that you do keep what you were doing to yourself.
Is not the merging of rock with jazz one of the two key components of being a prog band? Rock and classical and Rock and jazz. But alas again I am not trying to argue that he is progressive, I am proposing that he is prog-related because he is a key member of one of the major prog rock bands and thus related (again outside of the scope of the current website definition of prog-related).
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:40 | |||
I like the way you're thinking Scott. I still think those same fans would still find their way here through the Genesis connection without the need to add (or upset ) Phill.
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What?
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:49 | |||
I guess the question then is how far do you take that. If Tony Banks' postman puts out an album of traditional country-western songs, do we include that in prog-related?
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 20:56 | |||
It depends did Tony crack a smile upon the release of his postman's album?
Obviously, M@x and the admins perogative would take precedence to any inclusions in these type cases and based on the limited number included in this category my guess is they would continue to keep it limited.
My thought would be keeping it to major artists. As with anything though there are only so few admins and so little time for adding real progressive rock artists and as always that would take priority over the prog-related artists. And if there are offers to add information for lesser known artists such as Laura Meade then these could be added as well.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:05 | |||
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:29 | |||
Hi Ivan:
I've been expecting you.
You won't get any arguments from me on your points, as I did preface my points with the comments that the odds of these happening were remote. I think that fans of the Tarzan movies are probably under the age of 20 (if not under the age of 10) but even so you are most likely correct that listening to that soundtrack is not going to turn them into prog rock fans. I have two cousins that are in their early teens whose first exposure to Phil Collins was the Tarzan soundtrack, and they now at least like him as a solo artist. That being said I doubt that they will ever become prog fans because they are into the pop of their generation.
My hope would be that including a biography similar to what was included in my first post would appease those such as yourself who do not want him included. Such a biography would leave no doubt that PA is not saying that his solo career is progressive, but that he is an important but controversial figure in the prog music scene. I would like to be hopeful that his inclusion under those circumstances would not cause seasoned members to leave the forum. I think the first few weeks would consist of members either ignoring his existence on the forum or reviews giving him 1 or 2 stars that say that it is poor or for fans only. I would hope that these reviews would be kept civil, but I imagine that Easy Livin' could be busy cleaning up some language in a few reviews. The inclusion of these type of reviews would only enforce your position in regards to his solo career.
Thank you for your attention to this thread.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:32 | |||
Ivan's right: Phil Collins has no love lost for "prog". From the Genesis special I watched, these are not verbatim but pretty damn close:
"If I was stranded on a desert island, I'd much rather have a Sam & Dave or Aretha Franklin record than anything by Yes or Pink Floyd" (talking about the emergence of punk) "They talked about these (prog) bands, saying they're such crap, they're dinosaurs. And I was like, 'yeah, they really are crap'. And I was later horrified to learn that we (Genesis) were among the bands that they were talking about!" |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:35 | |||
So was I. He had to sharpen his knives first though.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:36 | |||
Not at all. Genesis was one of the most important prog bands, but apart from Genesis and Brand X, Phil Collins has not contributed one single bit to the prog music scene. Genesis and Brand X are already on PA. Edited by rileydog22 - November 15 2007 at 22:37 |
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:37 | |||
Instead of "Addition", ¿how about "extraterrestrialization"?. Let's launch him into space. He was one hell of a drummer, playing in one of the most lovely bands ever, and all he did was ruin it. Ok, ok, let's use Tony Banks as fuel, same charges.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:38 | |||
they may not leave, but they'll consider it |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:42 | |||
Why would anyone consider leaving this site over the addition of an admittedly controversial figure in the prog world. Sure, debate his inclusion, yell about it if you must, but leave? That makes no sense to me.
Besides, where are they gonna go? Back to the real world?
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:44 | |||
For what it is worth, I just went to AllMusic to check on his credits. In addition to Genesis, Brand X, and his solo work, he is also credited for drums and percussion on various albums for Brian Eno, Al DiMeola, Robert Fripp, Camel, Mike Oldfield and others. I can't say if any of that was progressive or to what level he contributed, but these are all some pretty well known progressive rock bands that he at least had some involvement with.
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 05 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:46 | |||
Why should he be in here just because he's a former member of Genesis?
With that logic Crowded House should be in her because Neil Finn and his drummer were ex Split Enz, or else the Police because Stuart Copeland was in Curver Air, or else Motorhead because Lemmy was in Hawkwind. Puttin Phil Collins in the archives is like giving Hitler the nobel peace prize - an obsurdity |
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:46 | |||
Collin's work IS indeed prog related, because it is the very antonim of prog... with this explanation included (as bio), I think he would fit perfectly...
Edited by cuncuna - November 15 2007 at 22:46 |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65268 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:46 | |||
OK let's face it and stop being polite... the man's music and all it stands for makes my skin crawl in a way unlike most other pop artists.. but hey, I'm sure he's a lovely guy
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Online Points: 66275 |
Posted: November 15 2007 at 22:46 | |||
Thank you Doctor. Agreed. That would mean they would have to get a life. Is that possible???
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