Black Sabbath Poll

micky wrote: oh brother....

Edited by Peter - October 05 2007 at 17:08

But perhaps, Miquel, your terse, cryptic post was not directed at my prior one, but at the topic?

Black Sabbath only demonstrated progressive tendencies in their later years (with Ozzy anyway... screw Dio), and I think it was mainly that they were influenced by the progressive music that was so popular in Britain at the time.  They had to influence directly on progressive music, apart from the fact that the metal movement eventually spawned prog metal.

So, while they have been among my favorite bands for many years, I say no, they should not be included, not even in prog related.

Logan wrote: I say "yes."  I mean Prog-Related is described as a non-Prog category and Black Sabbath is non-Prog, so a natural fit.   I'm sure the band is related to prog somehow, I'm just not sure how close the relation is.   Kinda proggish-sounding to me in much the same way that a huge amount of classic rock is (and it's the classic rock radio stuff that I know -- mostly their early stuff. If it's only being discussed as potentially Prog-Related, I'd like to vote for "whatever".  I really don't care. Influential to Progressive Rock, probably not enough to note.  Influenced by progressive rock, very likely to some extent (but not a very clear influence perhaps -- I'm not that familiar with BS beyond some staple songs off classic rock radio, so really I don't know but felt compelled to say something useless).

Sean Trane wrote:   BTW: I am strongly in favor that Purple and The Who be thrown in Prog Related instead of Proto Prog. I used to think different about Purple (I was for proto-prog) but then again Zep's inclusion changed many things about the musical and historical perspective of Prog Archives.

the bio of the Who explains exactly why they are in Proto rather than related... they could have gone in either.  It was deemed they serve the site  best , not being thought of as yet  another prog RELATED group.. but having their imporance to  progressive rock spotlighted.  That is why they were added to Proto.. and that is where they should stay. 

As far as Purple....  groups are added here for having one prog album.... Purple should be in heavy prog... many here know it.....few want to fight that battle... even even fewer think it would make any difference to fight it.  If they aren't to be in a full prog subgenre.. .for their prog albums.. then they should be in proto...  they have more 'right' to be there in terms of influencing progressive rock.. as well as making progressive rock.. than many groups there.  Instead of trying to alieviate a problem at this site.. which is prog related .... people seem full on bent to make the problem worse.

Let's have groups that are prog yet didn't or don't fit existing subs here...

add some groups whose only tie to prog is a group member...

toss in bands who incorporated  elements of progressive rock

add a dash of groups that were influenced by prog and may have had a song or two

add in the groups that influence later branches of prog but don't fit the timeline of proto


and finally.... add groups that were prog... yet not acceptable enough to put in a full prog sub...  who are a shining example of proto.... and toss them atop the pile of sh*t that is prog related.


makes a hell of a lot of sense to me Hugues


Edited by micky - October 05 2007 at 18:06

Meh. If they gots Dio in 'em, why not?

Cheesecakemouse wrote:     By the way have either of you actually listened  any of those albums, if not, you'd be surprised how strongly linked they are to prog if not prog, I discovered their music a couple of wqeeks ago and I was stunned I thought they were just plain heavy noise, but boy was I wrong!

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Cheesecakemouse wrote:     By the way have either of you actually listened  any of those albums, if not, you'd be surprised how strongly linked they are to prog if not prog, I discovered their music a couple of wqeeks ago and I was stunned I thought they were just plain heavy noise, but boy was I wrong!   I was there when the albums were released, most of my friends were metalheads so i listened Sabbath very frequently, when we played Poker in my house it was Prog, in their's it was Metal and we all respected our music in the times when Disco was king..   I like Sabbath very much, not a fan but close to be one, I haven't heard them only  for two weeks, i heard them for decades, as a fact i own almost every studio album they released including Sabbath Bloody Sabbath which is my favorite, and still I believe NO, THEY ARE NOT PROG RELATED MATERIAL.   But this is the Adms call.   Iván

In a band like Sabbath, how many days, weeks, years does not add any weight to how progressive you think they are, in the end its all a matter of opinion. If you look at this website the prog related bands such as Wishbone Ash and Roxy Music and Led Zep have in my opinion less progressive material  and degree of prog in them than Sabbath, Sabbath contained Symphonic structured extended pieces, many experiments with synthersizers, orchestras, and eclecticism. Also the band had prog guests, and the guitarist joined JTull for a while, Sabbath also heavily influenced many prog bands such as Kahn and Rush, as well as being influenced by prog bands such as Yes and King Crimson. Sabbath dparted radically from their metal sound buy the time of Technical Ecstasy and sound more like Yes and Supertramp. If you look at the radical change in their discography and the eclectism their is more than enough justification for them to be in the archives under prog related.


Edited by Cheesecakemouse - October 06 2007 at 03:04

The Whistler wrote: Heh. Influenced by King Crimson? Could that be a reference to "Iron Riff" vs. "2st Century Schizoid Riff?"

yep the album Paranoid, much in the same way Uriah Heep were influenced by Crimso on Very 'Eavy, very 'Umble - another prog connection


Edited by Cheesecakemouse - October 06 2007 at 03:07

The Whistler wrote: Yeah, I've also heard that...what was it, "Electric Funeral" was kinda Crimso-ish, right?

Yeah, kind of sounds like Pictures of a city on Poseidon Awakes