Edenbridge falls victim to witchhunt

laplace wrote: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=1843 no slight against yourself or the specialists here but I side with the opinions of a metal site when concerning prog metal. the archives themselves do not consider Edenbridge metal so I'm forced to agree. Do try to understand that this isn't a witchhunt but a mere difference of opinion. edit: please try to ignore the heavyhanded mods who feel the need to interject the same opinions multiple times into the thread to the detriment of reasonable discussion. it's a curse the world over.

Hello Laplace:

Thansk for your opinion. But really I can´t agree. Since the very first time I heard this band they were considered prog metal. They do have both prog and metal elements.But my concerns are not only mine, they are of many people who had the same opinions but were afraid to say it in fear of what some people would react. Given some of the feedback I got today I guess they were quite right. But someone had to do it.. I´ll be very glad if I´m wrong. I still believe in democratic discussions and that we can learn a lot from it.

Best wishes

Tarcísio B. Moura

man almighty.. people need to get a grip....

accusations and recriminations are flying around this site these days... next thing..hahahah.....

I'll be accused of working in the background making 'dodgy decisions for their own ends or for some unexplained and unfathomable reason'.  Not that anyone in a stable rational frame of mind  would ever think that.

As a member of the Art Rock team that rejected Edenbridge... 

it sounded like power metal to me... and that has no place here in Art Rock.. or IMO ProgArchives.  Nothing personal.. or underhanded about it.  It wasn't even bad music... just not prog IMO and the teams opinion.


Edited by micky - February 21 2007 at 19:33

Tarcisio Moura wrote: micky wrote: man almighty.. people need to get a grip.... accusations and recriminations are flying around this site these days... next thing..hahahah..... I'll be accused of working in the background making 'dodgy decisions for their own ends or for some unexplained and unfathomable reason'.  Not that anyone in a stable rational frame of mind  would ever think that. As a member of the Art Rock team that rejected Edenbridge...  it sounded like power metal to me... and that has no place here in Art Rock.. or IMO ProgArchives.  Nothing personal.. or underhanded about it.  It wasn't even bad music... just not prog IMO and the teams opinion. Dear Micky: It is only sad that it takes a forum like this to get some simple answers like yours as to why the band was rejected. I got no feedback at all as to whether they were approved or not as an Art Rock was not for a friend who told me that in a PM. You just wait and wait. We are left on our own. And even if you do have a forum about it you may not get at least a convincing reason. Oh, man, it was much easier some time ago... But I guess those times are over. Thanks anyway, MIcky. Tarcísio B. Moura

sorry ... we just do the best we can.. and call them as we see them.

Tarcisio Moura wrote: Yes, that´s really what scares me. I don´t agree, much less was I convinced. I still wonder if we are talking about the same band at all. To call Edenbridge a straight power metal band is... well, I don´t want to go any further, all I say is that I  can´t think of one heavy metal fan who will agree with that remark. Read my replies to them. best wishes Tarcísio B. Moura

For the record: I never said that they were a "straight" Power Metal band ... but the prog elements which their music undoubtedly contains are simply not enough for me to "recommend" their inclusion. If you take any of their albums and compare it to any Rhapsody album, you'll find that the Rhapsody album is much more complex in songwriting and arrangement. And Rhapsody is a band which is under constant attack or criticism in the archives ...

On my website I have 6 steps of progressiveness:

0: Not progressive
20%: Slightly progressive
40%: Moderately progressive (Prog-Related)
60%: Progressive
80%: Very progressive
100%: Extremely progressive

In all honesty Edenbridge - for me - are well below the 40% mark ... and Rhapsody are right between the 40% and 60%, it depends on whether the mere combination of classical music and power metal is progressive to you or not. If not, then you could even say that Rhapsody are not progressive at all - it's all a question of how you define prog.

So: If a metal band with a female, semi-operatic vocalist, strings and the occasional time signature change is prog to you, then so is Edenbridge. To me it is "just" symphonic metal, which can be highly enjoyable too.

"Not prog" does not mean that it's bad!

Tarcisio Moura wrote: Since the very first time I heard this band they were considered prog metal.

Then simply post a list of websites which consider them to be prog metal, so we can see for ourselves.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: progismylife wrote: I seem to side with Tarcisio on this one. Not having heard any of the music mentioned it seems a bad case of miscommunication. Some of the statements he made were manipulative and simply wrong ... like the one stating that "most other websites consider it to be prog". I read it through again and saw those comments. I said I seem to side with him, meaning I did not fully agree with him but I could see wherer he was coming from (like GPS ) It also appears to me that maybe Tarcisio feels he did not get an explanation about why they were rejected from PA. That's also not true ... there were several pages of discussion about Edenbridge. Of course if he expects some kind of multi-page essay about the musical structures of Edenbridge ... I'm much too lazy to do that, and it's not necessary either. A simple comparison with other prog (or non prog) bands should suffice. It was just confusing to me because I thought this site didn't like "If X is more prog than Y" or similar arguments and that was all I seemed to get from it. I'll reread it again just to be on the safe side. From reading hte posts of this and the other thread started by Tarcisio I do not see a reason given for why they were rejected. It seems to be comparing bands and saying its almost prog but not prog with any backing u of the opinion or specific examples. So what would such an example look like? Do you want me to write some notation/guitar tabulature or what? I don't think that is necessary, maybe a 1000 word essay on why the band should/should not be included. And Tony's post  "You are the kind of egocentric ingrate that will ultimately be the ruin of this wonderful website." is a bit over the top I might add. Of course it makes sense why he would answer like that with all the stuff he deals with being an admin after all. It just seems to be a confusing mess that has been made here.  Also notice that the title of this thread doesn't help much.

chopper wrote: Here are some samples I've found "Edenbridge is a band from Austria, specializing in symphonic metal, with minor neo-classical metal sounds in some songs." (Wikipedia) "Austrian symphonic metal band Edenbridge have signed to Napalm Records, according to Blabbermouth.net." (rocksirens.com) "This band is the best female fronted power metal band. ..." (last.fm) "Sabine has quite a beautiful voice. It's kind of different from the other female-fronted metal bands" (amazon.com) No mention of the p word there. What? Symphonic metal has nothing to do with prog? This is new to me. Excuse me then. Magazines like Road Crew and Rock Brigade, and their sites, always cite them as prog metal. But since you said Synmphonic metal can no be counted as prog, I may be wrong. Prog related maybe? Well, Lanall, their guitarrist/keyboardsman, songwriter and producer is included here. /Best regards Tarcísio B. Moura

Hi, Mike:

Thanks a lot for your explanation and the invitation. I´ll be visiting the site soon. I really like the way you let people categorisize the band. I think it is a great idea.

Tarcísio Moura.

BaldFriede wrote: Interesting that you think so, Tarcisio, but that's nothing more than an unfounded feeling. I have exactly the opposite feeling: Too much metal is accepted in here which does not really deserve the name "prog". Now who of us is right? Having said that: I am still waiting for Echo City (featuring Guy Evans of Van der Graaf Generator; one of the most avantgarde bands there are) to be added, or Cosmic Explosion (a krautrock all-star band). It seems though that both the Experimental and the Krautrock team have to do overtime. The albums of Cosmic Explosion are no longer available, by the way; they were limited pressings of a few thousand only. Both Echo City and Cosmic Explosion were suggested at least half a year ago.

It just seems weird that a refusal to include a band should be taken so personal by the one who submitted the band.  I mean, do you want the band to be included on PA because you think THEY deserve it or because you think YOUR submisson should be included ?   Big difference.

Edited by Melomaniac - February 22 2007 at 09:46