The "problem" with prog metal

The problem is allowing the metal part to take a higher predominance in the composition. Though listed as Rio/Avant prog band, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum sounds like prog metal should for me. Free form composition garnished with metalesque elements, but focused on producing original sounds instead of cloning a glam rock / heavy metal song with intrincated Kansas / ELP sections.

The Miracle wrote: Prog metal haters just tend to be more outspoken for some reason.

That reason would be that electronic music is very very experimental (interesting cases at least, like Pansonic, Spacemen 3, etc.), while prog metal is too much into the "metal" sound.
    

cuncuna wrote: The Miracle wrote: Prog metal haters just tend to be more outspoken for some reason. That reason would be that electronic music is very very experimental (interesting cases at least, like Pansonic, Spacemen 3, etc.), while prog metal is too much into the "metal" sound.

Not true. But thanks for verifying his statement.

Edit: Ignore this post - the bands I mention are all correctly categorised. :P

I've always thought of metal as its own genre, albeit rooted in rock. There are several key sounds involved and bands like SGM, Fantomas and Estradasphere feature none of them for sustained periods; of course Fantomas have a thing for playing thrash in six second bursts, but they spend far more CD time creating little incidental soundscapes. Their inclusion into the prog-metal genre confuses me, as I see them as avant-garde bands (or avant-fusion in Estradasphere's case) simply using modern musical tools.

Most of the bands from the japanese Zeuhl scene can be heavy but I haven't seen anyone clamoring for their inclusion into prog-metal, and that's because they're heavy but not metallic. Same deal with these new avant-style bands.

PS, I can't stand Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. :P




Edited by laplace - December 23 2006 at 10:25

cuncuna wrote: Eat_Paris wrote: cant handle too much palm muting and heavy distortion eh?  ¿Have you heard Sleepytime Gorilla Museum?. What I can't take is shape over content. Imitating Heavy metal riffs and adding an orchestra doesn't make it interesting. Using both elements to create a challenging piece of music is.

hehe offcourse there is good prog met and the bad ones...
my point is there is nothing wrong with prog met... symph prog, neo prog, prog met.. they're all prog.... 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: cuncuna wrote: The Miracle wrote: Prog metal haters just tend to be more outspoken for some reason. That reason would be that electronic music is very very experimental (interesting cases at least, like Pansonic, Spacemen 3, etc.), while prog metal is too much into the "metal" sound.      Not true. But thanks for verifying his statement.

    
I'll try to be obviuos. My limitations with english turns explaining myself into a hard task. Anyway; the main thing for me in music is forget about label or genre and follow a truly creative impulse. That's probably why I enjoy "Lateralus" (Tool) as much as I enjoy "Feels" (Animal Collective). I've heard a thousand bands like Angra or Rapsody, but only one Primus. I'm not at all against loud guitars, I'm against meaningless loud guitars. I'm not concerned about the "what", but about the "why" beyond the what.

In appreciation, one must thing in the basic terms of music, but expanded. Meaning, interpretation ("feeling" is as important as execution ("Joe Satriani", virtuoso speed show stuff), but in this days, those terms are far more intrincated, relation between meaning (feeling), materials / elements used to compose; mixtures, etc., provide a multi layered in wich reading can become infinite. Off course, there is also Steve Vai; no layers at all.
    

Edited by cuncuna - December 23 2006 at 11:00

I just find that all the prog metal I have ever heard was incredibley cheesy.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The only problem I see is that it's too Metal to be really Prog and too Prog to be really Metal, so some musicians get caught in the middle of a loud pompous and guitar virtuoso based  genre and a normally softer but also pompous and virtuoso based genre.   The ego of a Metalhead and a Proghead together, exceed the dimension of any stage.   Iván

    
As is often the case, I agree with Ivan. It's not a good marriage, imo- too much bombast for the human ear to bear in some bands. There are of course exceptions- I quite like 'Lateralus' by Tool, Mastodon's 'Leviathan' is a good meeting of prog and metal with minimal shredding and Opeth also manage to juggle the two very well. One of the Pain Of Salvation tracks I played on this site I thought was decent, too.

But Dream Theater is the band I REALLY struggle with- I've had half of their discography and I can't come to terms with it. Believe me, I have tried. Even though I gave it 3 stars out of fairness, I found Images and Words a chore to get through when I reviewed it. I don't honestly see what's all that progressive in their music- a lot of metal and AOR, but unless prog is lots of long, long and very fast solos I don't really hear so much prog in their output apart from on 'Scenes From A Memory' and the title track of 'Octavarium', both of which I liked. But how on earth 'Images and Words' is some kind of prog masterpiece completely escapes me personally. I find a lot of their music is jarring and rather unstructured with a song struggling to emerge from the shredding.

Mars Volta I similarly have problems with- it's very screechy and too bombastic even for me, with very little subtlety that I could hear.

I wouldn't say it's a genre that has no merits- like I said, some of it I like, but the genre's flagship band Dream Theater do it no favours at all, imho.
Still, I feel as if I should like it more than I actually do seeing as I love 70s and some 80s metal and prog rock. But in terms of my own personal taste, I do genuinely prefer neo prog.

The Wizard wrote: I just find that all the prog metal I have ever heard was incredibley cheesy.

True, but then again prog is cheesy in general.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ good point! It's all a matter of perspective ... to some punk fans any non-punk music may seem cheesy.IMO those prog metal albums that mainly deal with fantasy - dungeons, dragons, etc - may be called "objectively cheesy", but even then there are some fans who would disagree.

    
It's not cheesy! Don't you diss my dungeons and dragons!!

I don't really think any prog is cheesy. I try ot get as much prog as possible no matter what the sub genre. There is no problem with prog metal, in my opinion. It is just the older generation *cough* Peter Rideout *cough* like to poke fun at teh seriousness of prog metal listeners.