Saga - Prog or not? Comments are now allo

Sean Trane wrote: BigBrownBear wrote:   It seems obvious to me that given the voting in this survey, there is a general feeling that to move them to Prog Related was the wrong decision. >>> far from me the idea of blatant cheating but this poll was not yet one day old and the score was 12-0 with no-one having posted <<<<< since my first post (the second in this thread) the score is now 10-12. Sounds fishy to you? Sean, your comments here trouble me! I think you are implying cheating on my part which I take great exception to. It is exactly this kind of post that caused me to define the poll as vote only for the first day or so. I did not want these agressive comments to influence peoples voting. Because it became obvious which way the voting was going I then allowed posting as I felt it would be good to then see what comments people had, hence I edited the title of the poll to read 'Comments now allowed'. In my polls it is only ever possible to vote once. I suggest you are a sore loser Sean...the only problem is that the real losers are Saga, until their full Prog status is reinstated. Yes, there was a brief uprising among the negative voting faction who were clearly not into Prog in the late seventies (were they even born?) but that only prompted a return to the ratio in favour Saga being in a clearly defined Prog Rock category. For those of us who remember 1978 and were aware of Saga's welcomed entry to the Prog world, it is a great shame that they are not being properly recognised for their much misunderstood contribution.

Edited by BilboBaggins - July 16 2006 at 21:23

^ do you know that the poll started without the option to write posts - it was voting only - and then later on it was modified to allow posts?

Sean Trane wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ do you know that the poll started without the option to write posts - it was voting only - and then later on it was modified to allow posts?     No I did not and and I acknowledge it in the first sentence of my previous post : I did not know of the Poll Only bit. (which meant no answers allowed, >>>> this is a relatively rarely used option, which should not be open to everybody, but only for admins)      Still from 12 - 0 to 23 - 15 after it was opened to answers is bizarre............

Certif1ed wrote: Saga are definitely Prog-metal related - the music on their first two albums is almost entirely riff-driven, which is a characteristic of Prog metal, but NOT of Prog Rock. The keyboards seem decorative rather than contrapuntal - the comparisons with Marillion are erroneous for that reason. They experiment within a naroow Rock formula - and are fully deserving of Prog-Related, but not Neo-Prog, as their music has nothing in common with Neo-Prog and everything in common with stadium rock bands like Styx, REO Speedwagon, Journey and Foreigner. But you can hear where Queensryche evolved from, and hence Dream Theater - so the Prog metal link is strong. If there's any actual evidence rather than bald statements (as we've seen so far) about how Saga "changed Prog forever" or any other aspects of real progginess in their music, then I'm as open as ever to consideration - but I simply don't hear any.

Look my friend, I think I had better leave this alone as we are just going around in circles. I would say of the above selection that there is a clear divide between the mainstream rock bands you have mentioned (although Styx have had their Prog albums) and what Saga do on some albums. It's funny but the poll suggests a clear majority of people have come down in favour of them being Prog, most of the radio stations on PRRN play Saga as Prog...and why?..because they have always been considered Prog! You know i'm in the UK and the Progheads in my community definitely saw what they were doing was blending the complexities of Prog with a more mainstream Pop Rock rhythm sometimes. This should have made them globally commercial but because their music still wasn't mainstream, they were not commercially successful outside of Germany.

In a last ditch attempt to see if you see what I see, try listening to 'The Chapters' in order! Then if by any chance you like them, go back to the first albums and try again.

You mentioned Prog Metal...great because I'd rather they were in there rather than in Prog Related! At least Prog Metal is a real sub genre of Prog Rock. Having given them further consideration though I actually think Neo Progressive is the best category for them. In my humble opinion they were doing what Marillion did 4 or 5 years before and more consistantly...hows that for a 'Humble Stance'?

I must get a listen to Nobody!

Teaflax wrote: (...) I could be kind and call them Prog Lite, maybe. But when you have that kind of short, repetitive, non-modulating cadence-bound melody as your stock-in-trade, you're just not Prog, and obviously not trying to be, either.

You don't even have to go into the "technical" details - just listening to the standard intro/verse/chorus forms and preponderance of riffs is enough to do the classification.

Prog Rock transcends verse/chorus song form, and rarely uses riffs, as it is intrinsically chord progression based.


I suppose that will get me into trouble with the Prog metal fans... again
     


Maybe we could list Prog albums from 1976-1980 and make the comparisons that way - as that would put Saga into a better context.

Let's pick out some competition at random from that era, as these are the bands and albums that we must necessarily compare Saga to:

Barclay James Harvest: Octoberon, Gone To Earth, XII
Holgar Czukay: Movies
Genesis: A Trick of The Tail, Wind and Wuthering, And Then There Were Three, Duke
Gong: Gazeuse, Shamal, Mother Gong's Fairy Tales
Here & Now: Give & Take, What You See is What You Are
Steve Hackett: Please Don't Touch, Spectral Mornings, Defector
Hawkwind: Astounding Sounds, Roadhawks, Quark Strangeness and Charm, Masters of the Universe, P.X.R.5, Levitation
Steve Hillage: L, Motivation Radio, Green
King Crimson: The Young Person's Guide to..., Discipline
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall
Klaus Schultze: Moondawn, Mirage, Body Love, X, Dune, Dig It
Twelfth Night: Live at the Target, First and Second Tape Albums


Still think Saga are Prog?

http://www.dprp.net/proghistory/index.php?i=1995_02

http://www.last.fm/music/Saga/+tags

Edited by Bob Greece - July 21 2006 at 06:39

http://www.gepr.net/safram.html

Edited by Bob Greece - July 21 2006 at 06:44

For what I've heard of them, I think they're prog.