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Dream Theater - Parasomnia: released!
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21568 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 08:49
^^ Pedro, time and time again you win the award for the most arrogant person on the internet. LOL
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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^Yet I have to agree with him, ThyroidGlands,   and Catcher10 about the production.

I wish reviewers would include production quality in their reviews.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - February 12 2025 at 09:09
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Yet I have to agree with him, ThyroidGlands,   and Catcher10 about the production.

I wish reviewers would include production quality in their reviews.

I'm glad they don't. 
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Points: 12382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 10:32
Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Yet I have to agree with him, ThyroidGlands,   and Catcher10 about the production.

I wish reviewers would include production quality in their reviews.


I'm glad they don't. 
Why?
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21568 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 11:03
^ production quality is a highly subjective topic. At AP users can rate the production separately which can be useful as an indication of whether a rating or review is relevant to you.

In any case, Andy Sneap is a highly revered engineer. I don’t hear any obvious engineering blunders on the album that would justify saying that it is ”bad”. You may not like it, even hate it - but that has no bearing on what it is objectively. It’s equally non-sensical, hilarious, and megalomaniacal to say that Portnoy is a bad drummer.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Points: 12382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 11:18
^Yes, production is subjective but so is reviewing an album. And once you're comfortable with certain reviewers that align with your tastes it would be helpful to know their thoughts on production if they align with yours. I have not purchased albums because a reviewer I trusted mentioned it being brickwalled.

There is nothing objective about any music review. The tempo, time signatures, the key, dynamics, instruments used, are some items that can be objective. Not much more.

I never said Portnoy was a bad drummer.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - February 12 2025 at 11:21
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IncogNeato View Drop Down
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Points: 472 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote IncogNeato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 11:26
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Yet I have to agree with him, ThyroidGlands,   and Catcher10 about the production.

I wish reviewers would include production quality in their reviews.


I'm glad they don't. 
Why?

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ production quality is a highly subjective topic..

^^ That's why.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21568 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 12:43
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:


I never said Portnoy was a bad drummer.

No! Pedro did, on the previous page Smile
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Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Yet I have to agree with him, ThyroidGlands,   and Catcher10 about the production.

I wish reviewers would include production quality in their reviews.


I'm glad they don't. 
Why?

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ production quality is a highly subjective topic..

^^ That's why.

So is the whole topic of music.......Music is 100% subjective. Much less than production quality is. Where do you think all this Loudness Wars originates from??.....The ENGINEERS who mix/master music, that's not subjective.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Points: 12382 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 17:33
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

So is the whole topic of music.......Music is 100% subjective. Much less than production quality is. Where do you think all this Loudness Wars originates from??.....The ENGINEERS who mix/master music, that's not subjective.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^^ Pedro, time and time again you win the award for the most arrogant person on the internet. LOL
I don't think it's arrogance per se. Pedro has a tendency to ramble at best or write off-topic essays in his posts at worst. :P 🤣

I personally got used to that mannerism after a while. Whenever I see a post of moshk's that starts with a "Hi," followed by a wall of text, I don't even bother reading it.

Edited by Hrychu - February 12 2025 at 20:25
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 29372 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 22:38
If you believe Andy Edwards then Peart is not a great drummer and he even took a pop at John Bonham as well for being over hyped. Portnoy is a good drummer and in fact nothing he does distracts from the music or is a problem. He's just a bit vanilla imo. I got very bored with Transatlantic and maybe Neal Morse's albums because of the very samey style of drumming and I was very pleased to hear a Neal Morse album without Portnoy last year for a change.

Edited by richardh - February 12 2025 at 22:39
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ production quality is a highly subjective topic. At AP users can rate the production separately which can be useful as an indication of whether a rating or review is relevant to you.

In any case, Andy Sneap is a highly revered engineer. I don’t hear any obvious engineering blunders on the album that would justify saying that it is ”bad”. You may not like it, even hate it - but that has no bearing on what it is objectively. It’s equally non-sensical, hilarious, and megalomaniacal to say that Portnoy is a bad drummer.


Production is subjective. it's been proven to me on here with reviews over and over. I'm always talking about production in my reviews and am constantly amazed at the different opinions on it. Loudness wars is a fact but whether you like it or not is completely subjective. Do you like vinyl or cds? Subjective! And all about which "sound" you like better for most.
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Mellotron Storm View Drop Down
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Points: 14038 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mellotron Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 23:17
I mean even this album we're talking about here has fans and non-fans of the production. We all have different ears apparently.
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 29372 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2025 at 23:39
I generally dislike the way Opeth albums are mixed, just seem very sludgy even those with clean vocals. Riverside on the other hand seem to have perfect production and mixing as mentioned before. It's highly subjective though as stated.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:


So is the whole topic of music.......Music is 100% subjective. Much less than production quality is. Where do you think all this Loudness Wars originates from??.....The ENGINEERS who mix/master music, that's not subjective.

The loudness can be measured objectively, but that measurement does not correlate with how much listeners like the music. Opeth - Blackwater Park is an obvious example. Some really don't like it because of the loudness, for (many) others it's no issue at all. Personally I love it - and when I listen to it, I hear the loudness and think "yes, they wanted this to be loud all the time". 

For Parasomnia, it's obvious that those responsible for the mix wanted the guitar to dominate things. What seems ludicrous to me is to suggest that they didn't know how to do it otherwise. Of course they did, they chose not to.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by IncogNeato IncogNeato wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Yet I have to agree with him, ThyroidGlands,   and Catcher10 about the production.

I wish reviewers would include production quality in their reviews.


I'm glad they don't. 
Why?
The problem with rating the so called production quality is that one has to showcase quite extensive knowledge in the technical field in order to make any valuable points. Simply put: you gotta be an audio engineer, pro or hobbyist, to know what the hell you're talking about. Most reviewers don't have that privilege.

Edited by Hrychu - February 13 2025 at 03:32
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21568 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2025 at 04:25
^ Depends. Anyone is qualified to comment on "how good" a release sounds (to them). That's the subjective part which cannot be argued with. Then when it comes to the objective part, I see two different lines of reasoning: One is to look at the subjective assessment in larger groups of people, and the other is more along the lines of what you said, to establish objective criteria that can be measured, or which experts can point out and demonstrate.

A typical "rating" can include any of those criteria, but my guess is that most ratings are indicative of the subjective assessment.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

^ Depends. Anyone is qualified to comment on "how good" a release sounds (to them).
That's correct. From what I've observed, people choose not to in fear of making a fool out of themselves.

Besides, it's quite difficult to talk about something, when you can't grasp enough ins and outs of said subject to be able to eloquently present your stance, and not simply resort to saying "production sounds good" or "production sounds bad". As a reviewer, you're expected to have enough competence to back up your claims.

Edited by Hrychu - February 13 2025 at 05:04
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^Well on "Parasonmia" it's obvious Myung is barely audible throughout the record. You don't need to be an audio engineer to mention that.

But then maybe some listeners enjoy not hearing bass?
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