Anti mask protest in Berlin

CosmicVibration wrote: FDA approval wasn’t a huge concern.. I’m willing to bet that with more data coming in, it only solidifies their stance. Some people question everything while some believe and follow blindly. We need less indoctrination and more free thinkers.. and definitely more honesty.

Questioning everything is fine. Being afraid of things after you have the answers you seek is not. You have to trust that you have the intelligence and life experiences to determine if the answers to those questions are sound or not. Not being able to do so will only result in a constant state of anxiety or paranoia. Don't be afraid to trust yourself. It's the only way to exist with some piece of mind.

CosmicVibration wrote: This may or may not come as a surprise..   https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/ two main reasons: 1- the science just doesn't add up 2- mistrust in the government

Ok, I've waited quite a while for someone to note that those with Bachelors, Masters and Professionals were ranked quite a bit lower than PHDs, High School and Some College people. No one has noticed and that's the problem with seeking out a selective answer that backs up only one point of view. Did those three columns suddenly become invisible? Are those with Bachelors, Masters or EG\JD Professionals the Homer Simpsons of the educated class? As if their educated opinions mean nothing.We always seek out the "facts" of our own arguments and ignore everything else. And that's why we are so misinformed on so many topics. 

Edited by SteveG - August 30 2021 at 11:00

SteveG wrote: CosmicVibration wrote: This may or may not come as a surprise..   https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/ two main reasons: 1- the science just doesn't add up 2- mistrust in the government Ok, I've waited quite a while for someone to note that those with Bachelors, Masters and Professionals were ranked quite a bit lower than PHDs, High School and Some College people. No one has noticed and that's the problem with seeking out a selective answer that backs up only one point of view. Did those two columns suddenly become invisible? Are those with Bachelors, Masters or EG\JD Professionals the Homer Simpsons of the educated class? As if there educated opinions mean nothing. We always seek out the "facts" of our own arguments and ignore everything else. And that's why we are so misinformed on so many topics.

Steve, I agree. And one thing to add... Some people discontinue their education not because they are not qualified/intelligent enough, but because they don't like much discipline. I was very eager to be a professor once, but the discipline made me sick, the "you're too young to make such bold statements ," type of reactions that I received didn't motivate me either. I once made a comment, and they all liked it. Then a professor asked me whose statement that is, I said it was mine. Then, after the lecture, she came near me and "lectured" me, saying that even she, as a 70 year old head professor, cannot dare to make such statements. Lol.

And finally, the working conditions for academicians in Turkey are HORRIBLE!!! So, I discontinued after having my M.A. education. Also, people with virtually zero education can also be really smart. Actually, the best ideas generally come from the people who are experts in something, and then surprisingly people totally alien to a subject can come up with unimaginably revolutionary ideas. I witnessed this more than several times!

Edited by Shadowyzard - August 30 2021 at 10:36

Shadowyzard wrote: CosmicVibration wrote: Some people question everything while some believe and follow blindly. We need less indoctrination and more free thinkers.. and definitely more honesty. Yes, we need honesty. First, from your "type". I know your way of questioning things. I really do. I trust in Science. And I'll remain to do so. Unless I see REAL evidence of the misanthrope, villainous nature of the ones who "control" the Science.  Your slippery stance would be the least trustable thing for me in my whole life. I assure you. Please answer with honesty... I'm being honest here, first. I really question lots of things, perhaps everything. Then, I choose the most plausible conclusion, and go on my way. Unless I see proof that proves me wrong. What do you really question? Have you ever questioned all those delusional vibrations, astral bodies etc.? I believe you did, but chose to believe those. Believe me, we are the same. With a big difference. We are logical and reasonable.

omphaloskepsis wrote: SteveG wrote: And what does this prove? That most PHD's are idiots? I'll go with that.  The reason was non FDA approval, which the Pfizer vaccine was just granted last week. Pfizer has not released a FDA labeled approved vaccine. (show me a photo of a covid Pfizer vaccine with a FDA label)  All the Pfizer vaccine continues to released under Emergency Authorization.  Why?   1. By not releasing FDA labeled approved vaccines, Pfizer does not open themselves to lawsuits. Pfizer already  paid out billions of dollars because of fraud (violating False Claims Act), in multiple billion dollar judgements. Pfizer is not the only pharmaceutical company to pay billions because of fraudulent activity. Johnson and Johnson has shelled out billions for violating the False Claims Act. Meanwhile Japan pulled Moderna vaccine because of at least 2.6 million contaminated vaccine doses.  2. I'm not an expert on law, but upon a cursory reading of the emergency approval laws...I surmise that non-FDA approved medicines can be used in a declared emergency.  However, upon release to the market of an FDA approved medicine or vaccine, the non-approved medicines/vaccines must be pulled from use. That would mean the Moderna and Johnson & Johnson vaccines would be pulled of the market (if US government enforced law)  Therefore, I believe that Pfizer probably will not released a FDA Approved Labeled vaccine ( even if it's the same exact vaccine as the non-approved version, which I believe Pfizer will continue to provide.)

FDA NEWS RELEASEFDA Approves First COVID-19 VaccineApproval Signifies Key Achievement for PublicFor Immediate Release:Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals.“The FDA’s approval of this vaccine is a milestone as we continue to battle the COVID-19 pandemic. While this and other vaccines have met the FDA’s rigorous, scientific standards for emergency use authorization, as the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine, the public can be very confident that this vaccine meets the high standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality the FDA requires of an approved product,” said Acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock, M.D. “While millions of people have already safely received COVID-19 vaccines, we recognize that for some, the FDA approval of a vaccine may now instill additional confidence to get vaccinated. Today’s milestone puts us one step closer to altering the course of this pandemic in the U.S.” Since Dec. 11, 2020, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has been available under EUA in individuals 16 years of age and older, and the authorization was expanded to include those 12 through 15 years of age on May 10, 2021. EUAs can be used by the FDA during public health emergencies to provide access to medical products that may be effective in preventing, diagnosing, or treating a disease, provided that the FDA determines that the known and potential benefits of a product, when used to prevent, diagnose, or treat the disease, outweigh the known and potential risks of the product.FDA-approved vaccines undergo the agency’s standard process for reviewing the quality, safety and effectiveness of medical products. For all vaccines, the FDA evaluates data and information included in the manufacturer’s submission of a biologics license application (BLA). A BLA is a comprehensive document that is submitted to the agency providing very specific requirements. For Comirnaty, the BLA builds on the extensive data and information previously submitted that supported the EUA, such as preclinical and clinical data and information, as well as details of the manufacturing process, vaccine testing results to ensure vaccine quality, and inspections of the sites where the vaccine is made. The agency conducts its own analyses of the information in the BLA to make sure the vaccine is safe and effective and meets the FDA’s standards for approval. Comirnaty contains messenger RNA (mRNA), a kind of genetic material. The mRNA is used by the body to make a mimic of one of the proteins in the virus that causes COVID-19. The result of a person receiving this vaccine is that their immune system will ultimately react defensively to the virus that causes COVID-19. The mRNA in Comirnaty is only present in the body for a short time and is not incorporated into - nor does it alter - an individual’s genetic material. Comirnaty has the same formulation as the EUA vaccine and is administered as a series of two doses, three weeks apart. “Our scientific and medical experts conducted an incredibly thorough and thoughtful evaluation of this vaccine. We evaluated scientific data and information included in hundreds of thousands of pages, conducted our own analyses of Comirnaty’s safety and effectiveness, and performed a detailed assessment of the manufacturing processes, including inspections of the manufacturing facilities,” said Peter Marks, M.D., Ph.D., director of FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. “We have not lost sight that the COVID-19 public health crisis continues in the U.S. and that the public is counting on safe and effective vaccines. The public and medical community can be confident that although we approved this vaccine expeditiously, it was fully in keeping with our existing high standards for vaccines in the U.S."FDA Evaluation of Safety and Effectiveness Data for Approval for 16 Years of Age and OlderThe first EUA, issued Dec. 11, for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for individuals 16 years of age and older was based on safety and effectiveness data from a randomized, controlled, blinded ongoing clinical trial of thousands of individuals. To support the FDA’s approval decision today, the FDA reviewed updated data from the clinical trial which supported the EUA and included a longer duration of follow-up in a larger clinical trial population. Specifically, in the FDA’s review for approval, the agency analyzed effectiveness data from approximately 20,000 vaccine and 20,000 placebo recipients ages 16 and older who did not have evidence of the COVID-19 virus infection within a week of receiving the second dose. The safety of Comirnaty was evaluated in approximately 22,000 people who received the vaccine and 22,000 people who received a placebo 16 years of age and older.Based on results from the clinical trial, the vaccine was 91% effective in preventing COVID-19 disease. More than half of the clinical trial participants were followed for safety outcomes for at least four months after the second dose. Overall, approximately 12,000 recipients have been followed for at least 6 months.The most commonly reported side effects by those clinical trial participants who received Comirnaty were pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, fatigue, headache, muscle or joint pain, chills, and fever. The vaccine is effective in preventing COVID-19 and potentially serious outcomes including hospitalization and death.Additionally, the FDA conducted a rigorous evaluation of the post-authorization safety surveillance data pertaining to myocarditis and pericarditis following administration of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and has determined that the data demonstrate increased risks, particularly within the seven days following the second dose. The observed risk is higher among males under 40 years of age compared to females and older males. The observed risk is highest in males 12 through 17 years of age. Available data from short-term follow-up suggest that most individuals have had resolution of symptoms. However, some individuals required intensive care support. Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes. The Comirnaty Prescribing Information includes a warning about these risks.Ongoing Safety MonitoringThe FDA and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have monitoring systems in place to ensure that any safety concerns continue to be identified and evaluated in a timely manner. In addition, the FDA is requiring the company to conduct postmarketing studies to further assess the risks of myocarditis and pericarditis following vaccination with Comirnaty. These studies will include an evaluation of long-term outcomes among individuals who develop myocarditis following vaccination with Comirnaty. In addition, although not FDA requirements, the company has committed to additional post-marketing safety studies, including conducting a pregnancy registry study to evaluate pregnancy and infant outcomes after receipt of Comirnaty during pregnancy.The FDA granted this application Priority Review. The approval was granted to BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH

CosmicVibration wrote: And I think you have things backwards, vibrations and light (astral) are not delusional, matter seems to be.

Oh I didn't see this! It was a good laugh, THX. 

As any lawyer will tell you, you can sue anyone. But that doesn't mean that you will win.

Edited by SteveG - August 30 2021 at 11:56

omphaloskepsis wrote: SteveG wrote: As any lawyer will tell you, you can sue anyone. But that doesn't mean that you will win. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html Lawyers told MNBC that you can't sue Pfizer in a US court.  Funny thing. The United States government granted Pfizer immunity from all Covid vaccine lawsuits.

I'll repeat myself. You can sue anyone for anything. That's what the Supreme Court is for. They determine legal over reach by the government for cases like this. Nothing is written in stone, except what you want to believe is written in stone, like most right wingers.

omphaloskepsis wrote: SteveG wrote: omphaloskepsis wrote: SteveG wrote: As any lawyer will tell you, you can sue anyone. But that doesn't mean that you will win. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html Lawyers told MNBC that you can't sue Pfizer in a US court.  Funny thing. The United States government granted Pfizer immunity from all Covid vaccine lawsuits.  I'll repeat myself. You can sue anyone for anything. That's what the Supreme Court is for. They determine legal over reach by the government for cases like this. Nothing is written in stone, except what you want to believe is written in stone, like most right wingers. According to 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22, "No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings." In other words, companies that manufacture vaccines are not liable if someone has an allergic reaction or injury after being vaccinated.

Cindy, law is about language and words. In this law the key words are "unavoidable" and "properly prepared". Which means, if a drug manufacturer knowingly, or even unknowingly, produces a drug with a tainted ingredient, the resulting injury or death is no longer "unavoidable" and the drug "properly prepared". So, they can be sued. It is not a blanket statement to keep vaccine manufacturers from being sued for any reason what so ever. There are clauses like that, but this is not one of them.

Edited by SteveG - August 30 2021 at 12:40

No problem John. We will have to start a Covid Madness of Crowds 2.0 thread, as the original thread is locked.