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Progressive 80’s pop / sophisti-pop

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Crane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2021 at 14:38
nick’s recommendation The Opium Cartel is possibly the best example I’ve heard of progressive sophisti-pop:




Edited by Crane - March 11 2021 at 14:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2021 at 14:40
^ It was definitely my immediate thought, in terms of modern, progressive sophist-pop. Glad you enjoyed it. 🤗

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2021 at 14:42
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

^ It was definitely my immediate thought, in terms of modern, progressive sophist-pop. Glad you enjoyed it. 🤗


I know a lot of modern sophisti-pop groups (I run an online group on the genre) but none of them mix in progressive elements like this. So good. Are their other albums similar?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2021 at 15:01



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2021 at 15:56
Originally posted by Crane Crane wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Don't know anything about 'sophisti pop' but Ferry's solo lp's Boys and Girls and Bete Noire are about as slick as they come and still proggy at times. Also Simple Minds did several things in the 80's that are proggy and sophisticated  imo.

I’ll have to revisit those Ferry albums. Thanks.

Can you recommend some Simple Minds?

Listen to those Ferry albums...
and then this one....by Simple Minds..New Gold Dream and also Sparkle In The Rain...but many of them might fit your bill.



But my personal favorites are Sons and Fascination and Sister Feelings Call...both brilliant art pop and instrumental things also.
One of my all time favorite tracks by them...




Edited by dr wu23 - March 11 2021 at 16:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2021 at 16:40
Originally posted by Crane Crane wrote:

Originally posted by Progmind Progmind wrote:

I really like the genre, somo of my favorites are:

The Blue Nile
Prefab Sprout
China Crisis
Japan
Joe Jackson (first new wave, later sophisti-pop)
The Pale Fountains
The Painted World


You’ve named some of the best. I only don’t know The Painted World. I can recommend some newer artists, although I was hoping to make this thread about a prog/sophisti-pop hybrid, rather than sophisti-pop itself.

Hi Crane!!

The Painted Word (my mistake, its The Painted Word not World) was the band of Peter John Vettese (keyboardist of Jethro Tull), they oonly release two amazingd albums, i recommend you "Lovelife"

Sophisti- pop prog hybrid i recommend you:

North Atlantic Oscilation, I specially recommend you the album "Fog Electric"
Wild Nothing - "Nocturne" where the band shows influences from Shoegaze and Dream pop
Leaves - "The Angela Test" very Radiohead + Orchestrations + pop
Eksi Ekso - "I am your b*****d wings" post rock + orchestraton + pop melodies


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 01:37
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I've just discovered XTC and I love all of their stuff that ive heard so far, might sorta scratch the itch you're looking for. 


They're one of my top bands. Love everything they done between Drums & Wires and Nonsuch.

Black Sea, English Settlement and Skylarking are pretty much masterpieces IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 02:58
Originally posted by Progmind Progmind wrote:

Hi Crane!!

The Painted Word (my mistake, its The Painted Word not World) was the band of Peter John Vettese (keyboardist of Jethro Tull), they oonly release two amazingd albums, i recommend you "Lovelife"

Sophisti- pop prog hybrid i recommend you:

North Atlantic Oscilation, I specially recommend you the album "Fog Electric"
Wild Nothing - "Nocturne" where the band shows influences from Shoegaze and Dream pop
Leaves - "The Angela Test" very Radiohead + Orchestrations + pop
Eksi Ekso - "I am your b*****d wings" post rock + orchestraton + pop melodies

I’m liking the Painted Word songs I’m hearing. Very good, if typical, sophisti-pop. I’ll try to track down the full albums. I’ll also have to look into your other recommendations. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 04:48
I love NAO, and Fog Electric was my introduction to them. I now own all their releases, but whether because it is better, or perhaps simply because it was my first, Fog Electric is probably still my favourite NAO album.

I’m a really big fan of Nordic Giant’s Amplify Human Vibration album, too, which isn’t really anything like Fog Electric, but for some reason my mind always pairs the two albums up, and generally if I listen to one of those albums, I end up wanting to listen to the other one, too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 04:54
^ isn't shoegaze a rock subgenre rather than pop. For me, anything that got guitar distortion, is not pop music anymore. ConfusedLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 06:34
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ isn't shoegaze a rock subgenre rather than pop. For me, anything that got guitar distortion, is not pop music anymore. ConfusedLOL

Despite the use of the word pop in the name, dreampop and shoegaze are generally seen as synonymous and interchangeable. Often you’ll find that what is described as shoegaze on one side of the Atlantic, is referred to as dreampop on the other.

A lot or rock is pop anyway, so it’s somewhat spurious to imply they are wholly different. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Whether the music is more rock-oriented, or more pop-oriented, dreampop/shoegaze is essentially alternative rock that focuses on texture over melody. The 4AD bands were often labelled as dreampop, for example. And, since I was talking about NAO and Nordic Giants in my post, I may as well mention that fellow Kscope artists, Engineers, have also been labelled dreampop.

Personally, even though I like a lot of bands that have been labelled that way, I don’t use it myself as I tend to feel that there is so much difference between all the bands, that it renders the label somewhat arbitrary and meaningless - similar to grunge, in that respect.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 06:45
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ isn't shoegaze a rock subgenre rather than pop. For me, anything that got guitar distortion, is not pop music anymore. ConfusedLOL

Despite the use of the word pop in the name, dreampop and shoegaze are generally seen as synonymous and interchangeable. Often you’ll find that what is described as shoegaze on one side of the Atlantic, is referred to as dreampop on the other.

A lot or rock is pop anyway, so it’s somewhat spurious to imply they are wholly different. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Whether the music is more rock-oriented, or more pop-oriented, dreampop/shoegaze is essentially alternative rock that focuses on texture over melody. The 4AD bands were often labelled as dreampop, for example. And, since I was talking about NAO and Nordic Giants in my post, I may as well mention that fellow Kscope artists, Engineers, have also been labelled dreampop.

Personally, even though I like a lot of bands that have been labelled that way, I don’t use it myself as I tend to feel that there is so much difference between all the bands, that it renders the label somewhat arbitrary and meaningless - similar to grunge, in that respect.


I was trying to make a silly joke, that's why there were two silly emoticons there, but I agree with what you say there (the sentences I bolded there). 

Aren't Nordic Giants a post rock band? I listened to one of their albums. If i remember right, I suggested them here on PA. 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 06:53
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Whether the music is more rock-oriented, or more pop-oriented, dreampop/shoegaze is essentially alternative rock that focuses on texture over melody. The 4AD bands were often labelled as dreampop, for example. And, since I was talking about NAO and Nordic Giants in my post, I may as well mention that fellow Kscope artists, Engineers, have also been labelled dreampop.

While I think you’re right that dream pop and shoegaze both emphasise texture over melody, I don’t think they’re exactly synonymous. I tend to think of shoegaze as distinctly derived from rock, explicitly in its use of affected guitar to achieve its textures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 10:15
How about Level 42? Not overly prog though but I think some prog fans like them. Another band to check out might be the Cocteau Twins. Also, the Cure who I only mention because some of their stuff was a bit proggy. Ok, I'll stop before I start throwing every 80's band I can think of out there. Wink

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - March 12 2021 at 10:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 10:40
OMG, not mention of OMD?  OMD and Talk Talk, man - Ultravox and Japan, too.  Even better than those last two are David Sylvan's first sols LPs.....and don't forget ex-Bebop Deluxe guitarist Bill Nelson's solo albums.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 10:49
Originally posted by Crane Crane wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Whether the music is more rock-oriented, or more pop-oriented, dreampop/shoegaze is essentially alternative rock that focuses on texture over melody. The 4AD bands were often labelled as dreampop, for example. And, since I was talking about NAO and Nordic Giants in my post, I may as well mention that fellow Kscope artists, Engineers, have also been labelled dreampop.

While I think you’re right that dream pop and shoegaze both emphasise texture over melody, I don’t think they’re exactly synonymous. I tend to think of shoegaze as distinctly derived from rock, explicitly in its use of affected guitar to achieve its textures.

Honestly, it is possible that over time they have come to mean different things, but certainly when they were first used, they were used interchangeably. Dreampop was coined as the name of the genre before shoegaze. In fact, from memory shoegaze as a label came about in a similar way to Krautrock - as a joke, that was never meant to become a label, but somehow stuck. I think the joke was something along the lines of “Dreampop? You may as well call it shoegazing.” And so people did, and what was once known as dreampop started to sometimes be called shoegaze as well.

But because shoegaze was coined in the UK, it took awhile for the usage to make it across to the US. (It would be different for sure these days, with the interweb as it is now.) That meant for a time, generally speaking, bands were increasingly known as shoegaze in the UK, but still known as dreampop in the US. Bands like My Bloody Valentine who are definitely more rock than pop to me, were initially known as a dreampop band. I suspect any separation of the terms has been done retrospectively.

Personally, I don’t really care, and have never used either label. Neither gives a great indication of what you are going to hear. They are as arbitrary and meaningless as grunge was. But living in NZ, where we had about 50/50 media coming from the UK and the US it was definitely noticeable at the time that the same band was called dreampop initially by both, and then shoegaze in UK media, and dreampop in US media.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 13:04
With due respect, I do want to stay away from simply naming sophisti-pop groups in this thread. I’m looking particularly for any groups that might have taken the sound to another level in a progressive kind of way. Talk Talk fits that description to an extent. I love Japan, particularly their later material, and Level 42, not as familiar with OMD, but I don’t think those groups are particularly prog!

Edited by Crane - March 12 2021 at 13:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Crane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 13:04
That clears things up, nick. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2021 at 13:19
Interesting discussion, thanks for starting it! 

How about bands like Spandau Ballet, or Sparks?  Lots of synth, not blues-based etc.  

Lots of options to explore!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2021 at 13:10
fantastic thread guys, keep it up!

Also please recommend me some chill and deep ambient-pop/prog-pop a-la Talk Talk, David Slvian, The Blue Nile, Tor Lundvall, Bowery Electric, Julia Holter and No-Man. Thanks!
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