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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 07:01 |
Though I grew up as a Catholic (in Rome, as many of you know), I lost my faith quite early, in my mid-teens. Due to various circumstances, it took me quite a long time to recognize it, but by the time I had turned 22 or so, I stopped attending church and calling myself religious. Now I consider myself agnostic, though leaning more and more towards atheism.
However, I don't feel the need to belittle anyone who has faith, or loudly state that religion is the root is all evil. I have a lot of respect for personal faith (as opposed to organized religion rammed down people's throats, and/or encroaching on public life), and if that means it's a crutch, so be it. After all, people use all sorts of crutches to go through life, and I don't see how faith is any worse than alcohol, drugs, gambling and their ilk. As to the world being a better place if religion was abolished, I think it's as much of an illusion as believing the world would be better if women were in charge (and I say that as a woman). Personally, I find the worship of money, power and "success" worse than the worship of an "imaginary" being, but that's just me.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46838
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 07:05 |
damn right darling... well said.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8778
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 08:44 |
No, I have never believed in God. I have always been an agnostic. But I am very tolerant of other people's religious beliefs-some of my best friends are devout Christians. I tend to not like to argue about religion; my late father was an atheist, and when he was on his deathbed, my stepmother grinned and said to me, "Well, you know, your father isn't going to heaven, he is an atheist." What a thing to say at such a time! I would never try to belittle a person's faith, even if I don't have a personal faith in god. Nor would I condemn an atheist or agnostic for his or her lack of such. And I would never try to push or impose my beliefs on others; to differ is human, after all.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 08:56 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
emigre80 wrote:
DDPascalDD wrote:
A lot of attention to religion here lately! I'm raised as a christian and always stayed. It's a pity to see so few religious people here. |
Why do you think it's a pity? do you think the site would be improved if more people were religious? It's not a hostile question, I'm just curious as to why you think having more religious people on PA would change anything. |
Don't conclude too fast there mate! ;p In general there are fewer and fewer christians and you can probably imagine one rather has the same thoughts/beliefs with some people than being the only one. Also I am definitely not intending that christians are per se better people which would make the world better than non-christians.
So I think it's a pity that most people on PA think different. (on a forum that's kind of what you're looking for, right?) And well it wouldn't change this place enormously but maybe you'd feel a bit more welcome here as a christian. (By no means any blame to anyone)
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I didn't know Christians felt less welcome here. I don't believe in god myself but I have no objection to anyone else believing in him/her. Have you encountered any hostility?
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DDPascalDD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 856
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 09:09 |
Not really hostility per se, and maybe less welcome is a big word, it's in little things. Topics like songs for theists not taken seriously, that sort of things.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46838
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 09:14 |
there is a substantial anti-faith quotient here... and yeah.. you get those like the OP that blatantly imply that faith is for the weak minded. Not that it is hostility but still.. always nice to think that others here might see you as some kind of deluded fool for having personal beliefs. Personally I keep my faith to myself and wish others would keep their lack of it, or disdain for it, to themselves.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Online
Points: 20436
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 09:42 |
DDPascalDD wrote:
Not really hostility per se, and maybe less welcome is a big word, it's in little things. Topics like songs for theists not taken seriously, that sort of things. |
I really don't think so...  First, we're here for music  , not for proselyte reasons  ... so this subject is hardly a focus of the site  ... Except in one or two sub-forum (like this one of recently the general polls), religion is a minor issue... And even then, set aside the recent (last two or three months) flurry of such threads, I would say it's a fairly very very very minor subject on PA in general  - if you'll except the long running threads in the GD forum. If religious people would not bring up the subject, my guess is that this would rarely be a topic of choice for many (if not any) of us....  But some (often the same dudes/members) keep bringing it up  ... So it's no surprise that some of these opened threads become target for ridicule or frustrations or even irritation... Should zealots not bring it up, they wouldn't feel "less welcomed". It is the very  persistence of that topic's constant bringing to attention that gets (maybe) its unwelcomed attention  A few solutions: 1. you either don't bring the subject up by opening the umpteenth thread about it (and everything is cool and calm)  or 2. bring those stupid (IMHO) short subjects/questions confined to the long-standing thread in the GD subforum (and everything is cool and calm)  3. you avoid claiming that it's your right to open up as many threads on the subject and then claim to be a victim because you get un-serious responses. 4. in many forums, politics and religion subjects are often banned, because those two subjects always bring big fights between members who take quick offence at the other's views, because it conflicts with your own views... That's because religion doesn't like contradictions and other different opinions (whereas politics is about contradictions and different PoV) Generally when religion arises in a subject (generally in a thread title), then I will check it out (and often, but not always, answer), but I certainly won't go out of my way to bring the religion or esoteric dimension in any other musical or non-musical topics.
Edited by Sean Trane - November 27 2015 at 09:46
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 10:43 |
I have believed in God in the past. Now I just donīt know. I donīt believe God exists, but I donīt pretend to be able to affirm it with 100% certainty. I leave that to the geniuses who have all the answers already, some really young but who have already figured the entire universe out.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20671
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 16:59 |
The T wrote:
I have believed in God in the past. Now I just donīt know. I donīt believe God exists, but I donīt pretend to be able to affirm it with 100% certainty. I leave that to the geniuses who have all the answers already, some really young but who have already figured the entire universe out. |
Well said. I'm agnostic for a long time now , but there were times in the past where I used Eastern spiritual ideologies and was raised to believe in God (Presbyterian) , so I keep the options open as I go through life. I simply don't know .
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 20:01 |
micky wrote:
there is a substantial anti-faith quotient here... and yeah.. you get those like the OP that blatantly imply that faith is for the weak minded. Not that it is hostility but still.. always nice to think that others here might see you as some kind of deluded fool for having personal beliefs. Personally I keep my faith to myself and wish others would keep their lack of it, or disdain for it, to themselves.
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I'm with you bro
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 20:03 |
condor wrote:
A god, that is, that answers prayers: a personal god And I mean a belief that is genuine, not one out of personal desperation but reasoned thought..? |
That's exactly my case
I was raised as catholic, became an agnostic around 16 and onņly returned to Catholicism after studying theology in the university.
But I have absolute respect for every belief or disbelief, as long as they are respectful.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21343
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 20:48 |
I'm cool with anyone having whatever faith gets them through the day, I'm strongly opposed to the institutes of religion which have proved themselves primarily interested in the instruments of power through the centuries.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Follix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 130
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 22:27 |
Ever? Yes when I was like 10 yo...
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 22:30 |
When I was younger sure. I believed in the standard god that most of us have if raised Christian. Around 13 I stopped believing that type stuff but got into Deism and carried that for a few years, though by the end of High School honestly I didn't really believe in that anymore.
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*frinspar*
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: November 27 2015 at 22:34 |
Hey, OP. Do you actually read these threads after you drop them like the grenades you believe them to be? Do you even care what people respond with? Could I type "gablarbingterlude" as an answer and that would satisfy you?
You just don't seem very much engaged in follow up on these things. What's your purpose behind demanding I share something personal and/or meaningful with you?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 06:39 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
micky wrote:
there is a substantial anti-faith quotient here... and yeah.. you get those like the OP that blatantly imply that faith is for the weak minded. Not that it is hostility but still.. always nice to think that others here might see you as some kind of deluded fool for having personal beliefs. Personally I keep my faith to myself and wish others would keep their lack of it, or disdain for it, to themselves.
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I'm with you bro |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 06:50 |
*frinspar* wrote:
Hey, OP. Do you actually read these threads after you drop them like the grenades you believe them to be? Do you even care what people respond with? Could I type "gablarbingterlude" as an answer and that would satisfy you?
You just don't seem very much engaged in follow up on these things. What's your purpose behind demanding I share something personal and/or meaningful with you?
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interesting point. who gives a f**k about the OP man. I don't like what he implies but f**k him  . However what counts are the functioning forumites here. The community itself. Most of the people that post here have the personalities of a rock. Some have been here for years and I couldn't tell you a single thing about them based on what they share. Do they have too? Of course not. However many real life friendships have blossumed here and first step is finding those that interest you, and those interested in you and it goes from there. Not only did I find the love of my life here by putting myself out there, the good and the bad, but a great number of very real friends. Some I've got to meet and continue to see in real life, and some I'd give my left arm to meet in person and spend some time with. Why should you share, not because the OP, but for the rest of us and perhaps for yourself. One of the numerous reasons why this site was so great all those years ago. We not only worked together but we came to know each other, and came to care for each other. The site, and those that posted here had personality and expressed it. Now adays.. very much less so. Perhaps it is just me but I see people new to this site since I left it and returned and I don't think I could tell you a single thing about them based on their posts. Definitely not necessary, no one is forced to have or express a personality online haha.. but it is one of the main reasons this site is not what it once was.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13238
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 06:51 |
When I was back there in seminary school, there was a person there who put forth the proposition that you can petition the Lord with prayer. Petition the Lord with prayer. Petition the Lord with prayer. You cannot petition the Lord with Prayer! Ummm....sorry, Jim Morrison moment.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 07:06 |
I've found that prayer is a funny thing. Praying for myself never worked.... otherwise I'd be hung like John Holmes and look like Brad Pitt and be rich like Bill Gates and would have never said yes when my ex asked me to marry her. praying for others though. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Then again I'm not asking for them to get what I wanted  I always thought God filed personal requests in the sh*t can, but was more open to ... well.. what prayer should be about.. what God wants us to do. Thinking of others not ourselves. Selfishness is one of the roots of all evil.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: November 28 2015 at 08:53 |
I don't care for fundamentalism of any kind, whether religious or political. As soon as someone starts telling me what their god wants me to do (or rather insists on what I should do), I turn off, particularly when I perceive that what they are asserting has nothing to do with the basic tenets of their purported beliefs. I have no issue otherwise with other people believing what they believe. People start blowing other people up in the name of their religious or political beliefs, then I have issues.
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