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Topic ClosedIf you could change one thing about PA .

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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 20:27
yep... fat chance in hell of it happening.. but still... it would be public enemy #1 on my most wanted list.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 20:32
A good debate to be had though; could be illuminating, and a lively discussion.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 20:41
it could be....  I prefer to see the discussion about additions climax. To either go to the next step or finally drown.

Additions here are even more important than reviews. The relative lack of discussion there doesn't speak well to lively discussion about something that few do.. and is more of subtle forum improvement rather than a more direct one.

IN fact.. that would likely be #2 on my list.  I'd change the addition policy here.. only not #1 because @1 can be done with a quick decision... #2 requires a lot of discussion and acceptance on the part of everyone involved.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 00:52
I like your :
"...too psych to be folk, too folk to be stoner, too stoner to be Prog, too Prog to be alternative, too alternative to be psych"
 
Too prog to be prog Confused
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 06:21
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

The grass is always greener even when you know it's not.   

The grass looks greener and it's to do with viewing angles (perspective): when you looking over the fence at your neighbour's grass you are seeing it at an acute angle so you see more of the green blades than the brown dirt than you would by looking down at the grass at your feet. [courtesy of Chris Beardshaw, Gardener's Question Time, BBC Radio Four, June 2015]

The metaphor can be extended to nostalgia and memory, we only remember the highlights (grass blades) and tend to ignore the mundane (brown dirt).

From my brief tenure as an Admin I was blessed with the chance to see the forum and its peoples from a different viewing angle, and from the lofty height of the glass citadel things look a lot different than they do at the grass-roots. Things (topics, agendas, opinions, people, etc.,) that seemed important at one level become trivial and irrelevant when you step back from the red-mist heat of argument and take a dispassionate look at the bigger picture then breakdown each point on its own merit.
 
A case in point being the Occupy-Wall Street inspired "Free Progarchives movement" a few years back. At the time it did seem like the PA was at crisis point and on the verge of total collapse. So rather than wading in guns blazing the Admins took a step back and asked "Okay, let's talk: What are your specific grievances?". Fourteen pages of healthy debate later things that seemed important at the beginning were addressed and dealt with calmly. No one was fired and no one was banned (nothing changed either, but hey-ho). The only tragedy of that was the prime instigator of the "movement" took no part in that debate, choosing to exile himself from both the CZ and the General Forum (no doubt under the mistaken impression he was persona non grata around here)... peoples' perception of what the Admins think of them is generally a long way from the reality, their importance isn't as widely felt as it is to themselves (myself included).

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A forum is just a bunch of keyboard warriors with half-baked opinions and dodgy memories. If this forum has become boring and tedious (which it has) then that is wholly down to the current crop of frequent contributors and how they argue their opinions. The topics themselves aren't necessarily at fault here, most of them are good topics to discuss with much to talk about. Where it all goes horribly astray is when those failing to convince the audience start blaming other people, or the PA in general, for their failure. "If this band doesn't fit then change the PA rules" is the dumbest of all arguments.

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I would love to see the separation of ratings from reviews, the concept of ranking one album against another completely different album by a completely different band in a completely different subgenre of music is a nonsense. Personally I'd scrap ratings completely - they mean nothing anyway and are an out-moded throwback to magazine print reviews that have attained a level of significance they don't warrant. Aggregating a bunch of 5-star preferences to 2 decimal places is another nonsense. If one person says buy this album and another says don't, then does the mathematical average of that mean you should buy half the album? Basically that's what average album ratings are saying.




Edited by Dean - July 03 2015 at 06:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 06:45
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

bah.. .I tried to stir the pot in the SWilson thread and what did I get.. some feeble attempts at whining about me hating on the artist. boo hoo. LOL

Bah...  I could care less about the artist.. it was the fans I was after.. not for their tastes.. who cares what they like... but to stimulate a reaction.  I couldn't get that David.. at least back in the day you count on the DT kiddies to try to gun me down with squirt guns.. when I came after their favorite group.. they even tried to get me banned.  Well done.. now that was lively forum LOLClap
Ah yes, the DT kiddies. I remember the days when I could put "He's only a drummer, get over it" in a thread about Portnoy leaving DT, then sit back and wait for the abuse. LOL

Anyway, what would I change about PA? Possibly the name - Archives has always suggested to me a dusty old library full of information about old prog bands, whereas in fact it's become a database of every band (well known or otherwise) who are vaguely progressive. It's a never-ending task to add all these bands and sometimes I wonder what we're actually trying to be here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 07:12
I'd remove the e-Bay advertisements for illegal CD copies.
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 07:47
^ troo dat.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 08:36
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

bah.. .I tried to stir the pot in the SWilson thread and what did I get.. some feeble attempts at whining about me hating on the artist. boo hoo. LOL

Bah...  I could care less about the artist.. it was the fans I was after.. not for their tastes.. who cares what they like... but to stimulate a reaction.  I couldn't get that David.. at least back in the day you count on the DT kiddies to try to gun me down with squirt guns.. when I came after their favorite group.. they even tried to get me banned.  Well done.. now that was lively forum LOLClap
Ah yes, the DT kiddies. I remember the days when I could put "He's only a drummer, get over it" in a thread about Portnoy leaving DT, then sit back and wait for the abuse. LOL

Anyway, what would I change about PA? Possibly the name - Archives has always suggested to me a dusty old library full of information about old prog bands, whereas in fact it's become a database of every band (well known or otherwise) who are vaguely progressive. It's a never-ending task to add all these bands and sometimes I wonder what we're actually trying to be here.


excellent.. .. excellent suggestion Alan.

hell I'd even bump that to #1.

change the name.  As noted in many previous threads..  the site uses prog and progressive interchangeably when as many have noted.. the two have diverged completely.. and the site reflects it. Since prog rock, a genre as much as any other, is contained within the larger umbrella of progressive rock.. which in turn is contained within the larger progressive music umbrella which this site covers.

Simply... Progressive Archives. Simple change.. a good one..and more importantly an accurate one as this site has long progressed from being a mere prog rock website.  Large portions of the database are not 'prog' nor  'rock'
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 08:59
Krautrock isn't much rock either. I'm not an expert nor lover of Kraut (except for the food; I like making kraut stew) though.

Progressive... a bit like Bradley Smith who wrote the review book "The Billboard Guide To Progressive Music", where he distinguishes progressive rock, progressive jazz and progressive ambient.
As much as I like the idea, this will pose some problems, though, which has to be dealt with, like: are you only going to handle jazzrock, or will a big part of jazz being absorbed? The "rock" lemma still offers a good watershed.

The "Archives" part is a bit dusty, maybe. Maybe ProgExposure (thanks Robert Fripp) or other words that haven't been claimed yet in the wide world of prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:08
progressive jazz has always been a glaring omission on this site IMO.

No reason not to include it when in essence we have included progressive electronic, progressive folk, progressive neo-classical (rio/avant), and progressive pop.


Edited by micky - July 03 2015 at 09:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:32
Krautrock is mostly rockbased Marcel - I don't know what you've been listening to maybe progressive electronic.

As for your idea Micky: where do we draw the line? Progressive hip hop? Progressive classical? Progressive trance? And just to point out a wee discrepancy with this notion; if we were to change into ProgressiveArchives, then you could make a case for punk as well - widely accepted as the antithesis of prog. Why make the case? It was the next step - noone had done this before. Punk progressed the rock format (although you could say it just took 50s RnB and sped it up), and took it places it hadn't been before. It blossomed into the post-punk scene, which imho far exceeded anything the prog bands were dishing out around 78 in terms of progressiveness.
In the end, we'll end up with RYM 2.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:39
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Krautrock is mostly rockbased Marcel - I don't know what you've been listening to maybe progressive electronic.

 

Probably, yes.  I should keep my mouth shut about Krautrock Embarrassed

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:39
I would probably ban troll Micky; you know the one that customers think might need a drug test.  Wink Straight man Micky is welcome to stay. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:41
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:



As for your idea Micky: where do we draw the line? Progressive hip hop? Progressive classical? Progressive trance? And just to point out a wee discrepancy with this notion; if we were to change into ProgressiveArchives, then you could make a case for punk as well - widely accepted as the antithesis of prog. Why make the case? It was the next step - noone had done this before. Punk progressed the rock format (although you could say it just took 50s RnB and sped it up), and took it places it hadn't been before. It blossomed into the post-punk scene, which imho far exceeded anything the prog bands were dishing out around 78 in terms of progressiveness.
In the end, we'll end up with RYM 2.


ahh... we do what we have always done... evaluate carefully and add if they fit.

Do you really think the collabs here will add progressive hip-hop bands here. No neither do I... but ..but BUT.. if one did.  You damn well better believe that if one was added.. it would make sense. 

Look no further than SD.. .we knew it was going to be bomb dropped on the forum.. yet you know what... no one on the forum batted an eyelid about it. The only people that had a problem with it are those who.. well... had a problem with me personally Smile and thought I was stupid enough to not add something controversial without getting it cleared by multiple teams.

Trust your collabs.. .a mistake the previous administration made in not doing so.. they have good sense on what belongs and what doesn't and care for the integrety of the site as much as you all do. If not more... it is our names that go on the addtions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:47
I understand what you're saying but that was not really my point. If we are to mane the change to a site that concerns itself with Progressive music, then we have to accept hip hop and trance and all the other styles of music as well. Progressive music doesn't stop where your tastes stop. If we only included stuff we 'like' then there'd be no point of the change to begin with.
Progressive music is progressive music no matter if it's done by Beethoeven, Wu-Tang Clan or Suicide. If we say a we'll have to say b as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 09:49
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I would probably ban troll Micky; you know the one that customers think might need a drug test.  Wink Straight man Micky is welcome to stay. 


bah.... you know you love McTroll...  and anyone who doesn't gets a PM with the picture of me in heels and my tight black dress. hah!

Straight Mick is boring anyway..LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 10:02
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I understand what you're saying but that was not really my point. If we are to mane the change to a site that concerns itself with Progressive music, then we have to accept hip hop and trance and all the other styles of music as well. Progressive music doesn't stop where your tastes stop. If we only included stuff we 'like' then there'd be no point of the change to begin with.
Progressive music is progressive music no matter if it's done by Beethoeven, Wu-Tang Clan or Suicide. If we say a we'll have to say b as well.


ummm...  we have never merely included or added stuff we liked. That is value of good collabs which you have had and still have. We evaluate based on not what we like or don't like but on the music itself. I've cleared many bands and groups I detested stylistically as well as musically.

As far as that goes...we'd merely have to be OPEN to it... and that would be my suggestion David in how to handle it. The question is not to unilaterally add.. but merely to be receptive to suggestions and evaluate them accordingly.

again.. what is our purpose here. To serve the site.. to serve its users.  If THEY want to see it included..

I see no problem with it. In my mind.. the site has ground to a halt creatively... it has been on cruise control for years.  Perhaps it time to take it to the next level. Stimulate interest, discussion and new users.

quite the easy solution..  prog bands are still declined here by the nature of genre teams. and differnig ideas or notions of what belongs... if progressive x or y is declined... so what. What has changed.  The site never has claimed to a 100% complete archive. of even as simple to judge as prog rock.  Only the ultimate LOL Expand that... we won't expect ourselves.. nor would its users ..expect every single progressive doodad under the sun to be included.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 11:00
I love the idea about removing the number rating, I don't review/rate albums mainly because of this. I enjoy reading the verbiage and that is where I gain the knowledge of the band in question, not some number. As Dean stated its just following an old, old magazine habit..."put a number on it and see what people say!!"

Actually "ProgArchives" sounds pretty cool, the meaning probably does not match the websites Mission Statement (if there is one). All other prog music site titles to me sound the same, but a name change would not bother many here I am sure. 

What I think many regular members would like is some kind of "Member of the Month" or whatever, recognition, something that will acknowledge their contributions to PA, maybe even give them a Star/Mark in their avatar area....people like that. The Forum Senior Member tag is cool, but you get their pretty quick and it's only about number of posts.

Maybe a revamping of the categories in the Forum....some seem to get no participation. Maybe some need to be deleted or new ones added..not sure.

my 2 centavos
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 11:09
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

What I think many regular members would like is some kind of "Member of the Month" or whatever, recognition, something that will acknowledge their contributions to PA, maybe even give them a Star/Mark in their avatar area....people like that. The Forum Senior Member tag is cool, but you get their pretty quick and it's only about number of posts.
Not a bad idea.

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Maybe a revamping of the categories in the Forum....some seem to get no participation. Maybe some need to be deleted or new ones added..not sure.
Hadn't even thought about that but yeah, a few new categories and/or elimination of old ones that don't work could be good.



"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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