Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 19:54 |
The T wrote:
I would guess because a profit-based health care will always definitely leave out of the system those who need it the most. |
You've said this a couple of times, and I'm just curious why you think "the poor" need health care more than "the rich?" If you're sick, you're sick. A dying millionaire needs health care just as much as a dying beggar. A minor point, perhaps, but one I thought worth bringing up.
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:04 |
thellama73 wrote:
The T wrote:
I would guess because a profit-based health care will always definitely leave out of the system those who need it the most. |
You've said this a couple of times, and I'm just curious why you think "the poor" need health care more than "the rich?" If you're sick, you're sick. A dying millionaire needs health care just as much as a dying beggar. A minor point, perhaps, but one I thought worth bringing up.
|
Hey, I'm not saying "the rich" or "the poor". I'm saying the SICK, as in "those who need to get medical services", those who will be denied coverage. Is that clear enough?
|
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:10 |
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:19 |
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
Because some people don't have the money. Anyway, it just passed.
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10651
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:20 |
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments?
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:23 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
Because some people don't have the money. Anyway, it just passed.
|
In that case, any for profit industry could be said to "deny service to those that need it most" because some of them can't pay. That seems silly to me.
|
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:25 |
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? |
The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price.
|
|
|
Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10651
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:32 |
|
|
CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:39 |
I find it ludicrous that North Americans think a profit based oligarchy can be the rightfull owner of such a vital service to the nation.
I know Brazil isn't the best place in the world and our social services network suck big time, but I do preffer having an accident here than in the USA because I know I will have coverage.
Discussing this is the same to discuss why do you have public roads, public schools, public transportation, public security (AKA police), public administration (AKA governmet), etc. The tripod education, security and health is the most basic thing any government should give to the population. If they fail to do that, they fail as a gevernment.
|
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:39 |
^ Rush Limbaugh is promising to leave the US and go to Costa Rica. I apologize on behalf of our country. Also to your point, "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 (George W. Bush)
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? | The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price. |
I'm sorry, but I can't help but hope this happens to you someday, some have to learn the hard way. |
That's a bit harsh. I find the naivete in the opinions rather amusing.
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 25 2010 at 20:46
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32530
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:42 |
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? | The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price. |
I'm sorry, but I can't help but hope this happens to you someday, some have to learn the hard way. | I really like you John, but I'm sorry, that's a dick thing to say, and it's exactly what Jim was saying earlier.
You don't wish ill on someone just because you want them to learn a political lesson. Boo.
|
|
|
Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:42 |
|
|
CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:43 |
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
| and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? | The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price. | I'm sorry, but I can't help but hope this happens to you someday, some have to learn the hard way. |
True, only those who actually needed urgent medical care can say how precious it is. Hell, I am 20 years old and I already experienced that at least 5 times in my lifetime (due to Bronchitis, food poisoning, etc).
|
|
|
Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10651
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:43 |
Sorry Brian, but it isn't harsh at all. You see there is nothing wrong with being too poor to afford health care, it's like being too poor to afford a trip to the opera.
By his own statements I didn't wish anything bad on him at all, no harm, no foul.
|
|
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:48 |
Easy Money wrote:
Sorry Brian, but it isn't harsh at all. You see there is nothing wrong with being too poor to afford health care, it's like being too poor to afford a trip to the opera.
By his own statements I didn't wish anything bad on him at all, no harm, no foul. |
Well, I did qualify that with "bit"...
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
|
CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:49 |
Epignosis wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
| and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? | The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price. | I'm sorry, but I can't help but hope this happens to you someday, some have to learn the hard way. |
I really like you John, but I'm sorry, that's a dick thing to say, and it's exactly what Jim was saying earlier.
You don't wish ill on someone just because you want them to learn a political lesson. Boo.
|
Robert, this is not a politics, this is survival. On previous pages, people asked if it would be OK to give away food for those who can't buy it; in the USA that may be irrelevant, because very few people actually die of starvation, but here in Brazil people actually die of starvation and guess what? the government gives food away.
To think the human life is a matter of politics is quite frightening to me.
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:55 |
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? | The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price. |
I'm sorry, but I can't help but hope this happens to you someday, some have to learn the hard way. |
As terrible as this sounds, I think I have the same feeling.
Go pray to your holy market when you or your family is in a situation like this.
Edited by The T - March 25 2010 at 20:57
|
|
|
Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10651
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:56 |
Hold on a second guys.
If Mr Llama sees no wrong in being sick and too poor to afford health care, by his own terms how did I wish anything bad for him.
|
|
thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 20:56 |
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I don't see how a profit based health care system will always leave out the sick if they can pay for their treatments.
|
and what is your preferred scenario if they can't pay for their treatments? | The same as my scenario for people who can't pay their rent, or for their car, or for anything else in life. They find some family member, friend or charity willing to help them, or they don't get it. I know this is considered as an evil view point by some of you, but I don't see why doctor's services should be any different than any other service. If you perform a service, people should pay you for it, and the market should determine the price. |
I'm sorry, but I can't help but hope this happens to you someday, some have to learn the hard way. |
If this did happen to me and for some reason my loving family and friends weren't able to help me, I would be sad, but I wouldn't blame anyone for it. I wouldn't curse the evil greedy doctors or the evil greedy insurance companies or the evil greedy government , not even you . I just don't view access to expensive medical treatments as a god given right. There are tons of things that people need to be healthy and happy: food, shelter, clothing, transportation, education, etc. But I don't think all these things should just be handed out for free as if by merely being born you've earned them. What makes a society great is the determination and persistence of its citizens. You don't get motivated by having everything handed to you on a tray. Of course there are tragedies. There are always going to be tragedies in any system, and we can grieve about them and do our part to minimize them, as we all should, but if people are allowed to avoid ducking responsibility for their own lives, we have no future as a nation. Lovely debating with you folks (I mean that sincerely.) Now I'm off to get some pizza with the money I earned from working at my job.
|
|
|
Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10651
|
Posted: March 25 2010 at 21:03 |
Here's my point guys, you guys are OK with some faceless, nameless mob being too poor to afford health care, but if it is Mr Llama, OMG! it's a sin, how could I say such a thing.
Now I turn that back around to you, How can you say such a thing about people you don't know?
|
|