The Economics Discussion Thread

My favorite people on that list would be Scrooge McDuck, Bruce Wayne, and Steve Jobs

OK then, a little unwarranted  hostility there.

The T wrote: My favorite people on that list would be Scrooge McDuck, Bruce Wayne, and Steve Jobs

I see, so Jobs is a fictional character, eh?

I still find the obituary cartoons of him at the pearly gates rather funny as he was a buddhist the last time I checked.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 27 2011 at 12:50

Equality 7-2521 wrote: He wanted blacks to be shipped back to Africa. He didn't want them to be able to vote. His economic policies and curtailment of personal freedoms are identical to current Republicans. Modern republicanism idolizes him. His saving of the Union had nothing to do with emancipation of the slaves.

To be fair, Lincoln was a lot like Jefferson. Jefferson preached small government and freedom until he found himself in position where he had to weigh his beliefs and what he knew would a better outcome.

It is unclear what Lincoln actually believed with regard to slaves. He preached sending them back to Africa, but that may have been Lincoln the Politician showing his hand. He may have freed the slaves in the South because he believed that all men were equal, or he may have done it as part of the war effort. I've read two biographies on Lincoln, and while I'm no Lincoln scholar, it's really not clear what he believed. It is extremely likely that he found slavery abhorrent -- that much is pretty clear from pretty much all personal accounts. However, whether he thought blacks should be integrated into society is hard to say. It was a shrewd man who invited Franklin Douglas to his second inauguration.

Slartibartfast wrote: So it's resolved, Lincoln was a truly awful fellow who wasn't shot nearly enough.  Jefferson would have saved the nation if only he'd been given half a chance.

Considering the way things are going today, I wish the south had been allowed to secede, so we wouldn't have to deal with the bible belt politically today.  

Gamemako wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: He wanted blacks to be shipped back to Africa. He didn't want them to be able to vote. His economic policies and curtailment of personal freedoms are identical to current Republicans. Modern republicanism idolizes him. His saving of the Union had nothing to do with emancipation of the slaves. To be fair, Lincoln was a lot like Jefferson. Jefferson preached small government and freedom until he found himself in position where he had to weigh his beliefs and what he knew would a better outcome. It is unclear what Lincoln actually believed with regard to slaves. He preached sending them back to Africa, but that may have been Lincoln the Politician showing his hand. He may have freed the slaves in the South because he believed that all men were equal, or he may have done it as part of the war effort. I've read two biographies on Lincoln, and while I'm no Lincoln scholar, it's really not clear what he believed. It is extremely likely that he found slavery abhorrent -- that much is pretty clear from pretty much all personal accounts. However, whether he thought blacks should be integrated into society is hard to say. It was a shrewd man who invited Franklin Douglas to his second inauguration.

Jefferson had a far less freedom encroaching presidency than did Lincoln. His true beliefs are rather obscured, but his political stance seemed clearly to be one of anti-slavery, bur pro-white dominance. That's just as good as believing in slavery to me.

Slartibartfast wrote: So it's resolved, Lincoln was a truly awful fellow who wasn't shot nearly enough.  Jefferson would have saved the nation if only he'd been given half a chance.

Lincoln stands for the things you supposedly abhor, so your support of him strikes me as disingenuous or uninformed.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: What the hell are you smoking? Forcibly removing a group of people from a geographical area because of the color of their skin is not noble no matter what time period you hail from.

Clearly you didn't actually read my post, for I have no recollection of saying anything about forcing them to go back.
Did anyone even think to ask slaves what they wanted, ultimately, back then? Did anybody care what the slaves wanted at the time? Does anyone really know what time it is? Does anybody care?

Probably not.

Slartibartfast wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: So it's resolved, Lincoln was a truly awful fellow who wasn't shot nearly enough.  Jefferson would have saved the nation if only he'd been given half a chance. Lincoln stands for the things you supposedly abhor, so your support of him strikes me as disingenuous or uninformed. Yeah you nailed me.  I'm actually both ingenuous and misinformed. Remind me again why I have to like Lincoln and the modern day republican party or neither? Let's ignore that whole state's rights thing.

Because their views are essentially the same? Modern Republicans care about states' rights? That's news to me.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: That's why you just free the slaves. If they wish to go back, they can go back. The point I was making was Lincoln's position of forcibly shipping them back. I thought that was the context.

With what money to pay for the passage back?

Perhaps the Indians should have sent the pilgrims back to Europe.