"Freedom" thread or something

It depends. In some municipalities it's covered in your local taxes and handled by the county. In others, you need to pay a fee to have waste collection at your residence or you must drive it to a dump and directly pay a dumping fee.

I find it hard to believe that it will cause a problem, because largely it already doesn't. In my experience, more trash piled up on people's steps in the inner city where the city government handles the trash collection at no additional fee than in the suburb my parents live in now where you must pay.

It's really no different than any service, and it's a particularly poor example of a free rider problem since there simply aren't any direct ones. Right now, almost all municipalities have laws regarding when trash can be out, how long it can remain out, and certainly would not allow it to rot on a lawn. Absent of those laws, this would be something in the past that would allow you to take someone to small claims court (in this case) under nuisance laws. But large corporations found nuisance laws a bit bothersome because it prevented them from poisoning people, lakes, river, the air, etc. so government was happy enough to strike most of these laws down through a combination of overt removal and using judicial precedent to render them moot.

^When he said "waste" I assumed he meant sewage. Trash collection is very easily handled by private companies in the suburbs at least. I see no reason why it couldn't be done the same way in cities.

Gerinski wrote: Epignosis wrote:   There have been civilizations throughout history with laws but no government (and that doesn't make them Libertarian civilizations either). Hi Rob, this one had passed by. Who decided the laws in such a government-less state? I don't know in the States, but here in Europe the activity the governments are busy with most of their time is refining and redefining laws.

Mercantile law in medieval Italy is one of the best examples of private law.

EDIT: There's somewhat surprisingly a wiki on this, but it's cited poorly


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - June 19 2013 at 08:45

Gerinski wrote: thellama73 wrote: ^When he said "waste" I assumed he meant sewage. Trash collection is very easily handled by private companies in the suburbs at least. I see no reason why it couldn't be done the same way in cities. No I actually meant trash. I just meant that if you leave the choice of whether one's trash should be collected or not to each individual decision, I thought that this might cause some conflict in a social environment.

Gerinski wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Gerinski wrote: Epignosis wrote:   There have been civilizations throughout history with laws but no government (and that doesn't make them Libertarian civilizations either). Hi Rob, this one had passed by. Who decided the laws in such a government-less state? I don't know in the States, but here in Europe the activity the governments are busy with most of their time is refining and redefining laws. Mercantile law in medieval Italy is one of the best examples of private law. EDIT: There's somewhat surprisingly a wiki on this, but it's cited poorly Thanks, as close as this happened to my place I did not know this. Unfortunately another example that you propose going back to the middle ages and try again.

You say it as if I'm advancing some Luddite viewpoint. I'm not against progress. It's just as foolish to ignore something because it's new as it is to discount an idea because it's old. Especially when the reasons for abandoning the idea have mainly to do with consolidating money and power into an aristocratic class. Europe passed into a period of prolonged Statism, so of course examples of something as laissez faire law on an international scale will necessarily have to have occurred in the past. You cannot invalidate an idea by demonstrating its age.

Errr, in any case letting the powerful people or businessmen decide the laws doesn't feel much more reassuring than letting elected politicians (even if influenced by those powerful businessmen) do it. 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Also, don't forget that for modern examples you can just look at contract law. Contract law is private law. Heck, even a lot of commercial law still is private law handled primarily by arbiters distinct from the public law apparatus.

What are consumer rights?

Gerinski wrote: Fundamental laws being dictated by the economics exchange dynamics?   again, thank god I don't live in your hypothetical country!

You do. You just call it a democracy, place barrier to entry on the market, and then glorify it as a sacrosanct institution. I'd hate to quote Marx here, but it would probably be appropriate.

Gerinski wrote: Fundamental laws being dictated by the economics exchange dynamics?

Can you be more specific? What special rights do consumers have apart from property rights, right to life and having their contracts upheld?