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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20649
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Posted: June 10 2019 at 14:21 |
progaardvark wrote:
Now that the moon is part of Mars, I'm sure it won't be long now before we see tariffs against the moon and probably other objects in the solar system. |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20649
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Posted: June 10 2019 at 14:25 |
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65550
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Posted: June 10 2019 at 18:51 |
I'll give you some patriotism: Congratulations to Brigadier General Laura Yeager who will be the first woman to command a U.S. Army Division.
You go, girl !!
Edited by Atavachron - June 10 2019 at 18:58
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Shiny globe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2017
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 115
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Posted: June 12 2019 at 11:57 |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16835
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Posted: June 12 2019 at 12:30 |
Shiny globe wrote:
![](uploads/60873/Dan_Quayle_Solar_System.JPG) |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65550
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Posted: June 12 2019 at 13:27 |
![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) That was actually one of the smarter things he said.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16835
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Posted: June 14 2019 at 17:57 |
Looks like the US government might go into another foreign adventure in Iran.... Oh boy.
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Fischman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1636
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Posted: June 15 2019 at 18:29 |
rogerthat wrote:
ProfPanglos wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
From an outsider's perspective, I think Trump has got some things right albeit Iran is not one of them. Obama at least somewhat managed to upend the Haqqani network and see the game in the Middle East for what it is. Unfortunately, Trump is now locked in a bear hug with Saudi which is easily the worst of the ME operators AND...America's biggest ally in that region. Saudi spreads propaganda about Iran because Iran is a Shia majority state, period. And USA still hasn't forgiven the Ayatollah installed regime for overthrowing the despotic Shah back in the late 70s. As Bush undid Clinton's efforts to bring peace to the ME, Trump has to Obama (though Obama does take the blame imo for both Syria and Libya, less so in the case of the former).
But on China, it's more the fault of the earlier corporatist leadership that they handled China with kid gloves than Trump for doing what should have been done much before. Yes, he is escalating it dangerously but this would not have been required had previous Presidents more realistic and less sunny about China.
In either event, I do not see the threat to USA's national sovereignty that he is supposed to be warding off. It is almost laughable to hear that notion as an outsider. Dear God, if the world's biggest power feels insecure and needs protection, then where does that leave other nations. There is no military power today and not for the next ten-fifteen years in a position to dislodge USA. If you invest in the very idea of a threat to national sovereignty of USA, you have been played by paranoid right wing media. |
I agree with much of what you wrote.
I have never personally been on-board with our alliance with Saudi Arabia. Especially after 9/11. And, I certainly did not agree with the way Trump handled that Khashoggi murder. I understand why he didn't hold the Saudi's feet to the fire - he wanted his giant deal with them to go through.
Trump makes a lot of decisions based on $$. But that Khashoggi thing didn't sit well with me.
I don't know that America feels insecure, so much as it feels a need to assert its individuality, or feels a need to "rebel" against perceived (rightly or wrongly) threats of being assimilated into some globalist conglomerate, or if not assimilated, forced to comply with...
Granted, I've never felt threatened by the ICC; but I appreciate that Trump said Nope, the ICC isn't an authority for any American citizen. I think that's cool, that works for me.
The Paris Agreement withdrawal was another example of Trump not following along with the crowd, and I approve. Mainly because I am "pro" fossil fuel industries. Maybe logistics need to be re-examined, but even the "green" movement is a dependent of the fossil fuel industry. The "Green New Deal" wants to essentially eliminate the fossil fuel industry, and that seems unrealistic to me (to put it very mildly). It actually seems downright naive. We're not going back to making things out of wood and we're not going back to riding horses. High-speed rail, electric cars, high-rise buildings, computers, cell phones, hi-fi systems that pump out rockin' prog-rock... our vinyl collections, our CDs, our cassettes... all that stuff depends on the fossil fuel industry.
What we need is more power generation, not less. So I favor Trump's moves to deregulate this stuff.
I would rather be investing my own time, efforts and resources into production (vs. consumption). Granted, there's got to be some kind of balance. We were heavy polluters, back before we outsourced the vast majority of our industries to Asia. If the Trump administration wants to point America back toward being more of a producing nation (which seems to me what he's doing, anyway), I'm okay with that. The consumer is always dependent on the producer, and America has always prided itself on it's independence. Independence isn't a bad word to me, it's a good one.
Edited to add: You mentioned the military might of the USA (and I don't disagree with you, the USA is second-to-none in military might). I don't think the "threat" from globalism is a military threat; it is a philosophical threat. A purely globalist worldview has no place for national sovereignty. The idea of a country acting unilaterally goes against the globalist worldview. The threat seems more to be one of intellectual assimilation, an acquiescence to some higher authority. America likes being its own authority. And I concur, I don't want our country in some subservient position to some organization or convention. I don't care if other nations want to willingly place themselves under the authority of others, but that idea doesn't sit too well with me.
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Pl remember that these conventions were set up mostly by the USA itself and while you may find that conclusion unpalatable, from the outside we only see the USA having its way whenever it chooses to. For example, if the UN really had any powers, the Iraq war wouldn't have happened. When Trump supporters complain they would like to see the USA have its way, we on the outside have to ask when has the USA NOT had its way in the last several decades and particularly since 1989 as the unchallenged and undisputed superpower? The domination has not just been military but economic and institutional as well. Therefore, any globalist order that does emerge in future, if at all, would necessarily also be subservient to US needs. Whether the US state needs are necessarily the same as that of the American people is a different question but I do not see that merely demolishing globalism would achieve that and if anything, it gives Trump an easy win, a low hanging fruit to show and collect votes without addressing the deeper problems that led to the deep resentment with the centre of politics in many democracies. Our Prime Minister, Modi, too escaped critique over his economic policies by showing off air strikes against Pakistan to burnish his nationalist credentials. But of what use is such nationalism that doesn't feed hungry mouths anyway. I fully understand why the centrist order is being upended in politics but so far find the chosen remedies to be worse than the illness.
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I get your point here, but to say if the UN had it's way, the Iraq war would never have happened makes no sense.
When the nuclear inspection protocols were set up, the UN built in an authorization of force if Iraq failed to comply. Iraq's stonewalling of nuclear inspections went on for years past the supposed trigger for a military response.
Mind you, I'm not justifying the war or defending it; just pointing out that its taking place was perfectly in accordance with the UN's original plan.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: June 15 2019 at 22:08 |
Fischman wrote:
I get your point here, but to say if the UN had it's way, the Iraq war would never have happened makes no sense.
When the nuclear inspection protocols were set up, the UN built in an authorization of force if Iraq failed to comply. Iraq's stonewalling of nuclear inspections went on for years past the supposed trigger for a military response.
Mind you, I'm not justifying the war or defending it; just pointing out that its taking place was perfectly in accordance with the UN's original plan. |
UN still had not approved the Iraq war. And the US is among very few powers in the world that can brazenly ignore the lack of a UN sanction and still go ahead with the war. My point there being that US has always been able to bend its self installed multilateral institutions to its will. So the claim that US got conned by UN or WTO always comes across as bizarre to outsiders.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65550
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Posted: June 22 2019 at 00:12 |
I'll give Trump due credit for not killing a bunch of possibly innocent people by having a proportional attitude about the drone shoot-down. Many other presidents, even Dems, would've wanted or been pressured into a sortie or two.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14514
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Posted: June 22 2019 at 01:31 |
Should I drive a drone from Mexico to Texas, possibly over a military base, would you be so kind to bring it back to me, possibly perfectly working?
Thank you in advance
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10676
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Posted: June 22 2019 at 03:11 |
Atavachron wrote:
I'll give Trump due credit for not killing a bunch of possibly innocent people by having a proportional attitude about the drone shoot-down. Many other presidents, even Dems, would've wanted or been pressured into a sortie or two.
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No point in upsetting Vlad over a silly bit of surveillance technology.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65550
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Posted: June 25 2019 at 23:17 |
F*cking right-wing extremist groups threatened violence on the Oregon State Capital over an environmental & education bill that was coming up for vote. Republican reps have fled to Idaho like ignorant cowards to avoid voting. Now there's no quorum, so no vote. This is not only a bad look for Oregon ~ an increasingly Green and Progressive state ~ it's a terrible look for the Right.
Shame.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Snicolette
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2018
Location: OR
Status: Offline
Points: 6048
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 06:18 |
Absolutely agree....This is not how democracy is supposed to work.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Online
Points: 18825
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 19:57 |
I have the Democratic debates on. I'm kind of half paying attention. Too many cooks in the kitchen. I just hope before too long one stands out to push Trumpy out of the white house.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 26 2019 at 19:58
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16835
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 20:48 |
For me, if it's between Biden and Trump. it's better not to vote for either.... Biden hasn't shown me to be anything but a careerist politician drone...
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Online
Points: 18825
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 20:53 |
Not voting will just give us more of the same. Then again I'm of the "anyone but Trump" variety.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16835
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 22:19 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Not voting will just give us more of the same. Then again I'm of the "anyone but Trump" variety. |
If your location is accurate, then your vote matters... Mine does not as exemplified by my location. ![Confused Confused](smileys/smiley5.gif)
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Online
Points: 18825
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 22:56 |
I think all votes matter in the presidential election regardless of location.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 26 2019 at 22:57
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: June 26 2019 at 23:00 |
Atavachron wrote:
F*cking right-wing extremist groups threatened violence on the Oregon State Capital over an environmental & education bill that was coming up for vote. Republican reps have fled to Idaho like ignorant cowards to avoid voting. Now there's no quorum, so no vote. This is not only a bad look for Oregon ~ an increasingly Green and Progressive state ~ it's a terrible look for the Right.
Shame.
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It is exactly what the right (appears) to want to be though. So pro-America so pro-police, but doesn't mind sh*tting on both when convenient.
God bless America.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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