The American Politics Thread

omphaloskepsis wrote: Trump want's every country to be sovereign.  Nationalists want local rule... not One World government.   Let everyone mind their own business and rule themselves.

'Nationalists', hmm.

Pl remember that these conventions were set up mostly by the USA itself and while you may find that conclusion unpalatable, from the outside we only see the USA having its way whenever it chooses to.  For example, if the UN really had any powers, the Iraq war wouldn't have happened.  When Trump supporters complain they would like to see the USA have its way, we on the outside have to ask when has the USA NOT had its way in the last several decades and particularly since 1989 as the unchallenged and undisputed superpower?  The domination has not just been military but economic and institutional as well.  Therefore, any globalist order that does emerge in future, if at all, would necessarily also be subservient to US needs.  Whether the US state needs are necessarily the same as that of the American people is a different question but I do not see that merely demolishing globalism would achieve that and if anything, it gives Trump an easy win, a low hanging fruit to show and collect votes without addressing the deeper problems that led to the deep resentment with the centre of politics in many democracies.  Our Prime Minister, Modi, too escaped critique over his economic policies by showing off air strikes against Pakistan to burnish his nationalist credentials.  But of what use is such nationalism that doesn't feed hungry mouths anyway.  I fully understand why the centrist order is being upended in politics but so far find the chosen remedies to be worse than the illness.

Well, yes, it should.  But it's not necessarily in our control to stop it or mitigate it.

It is in our power to stay out of the elections of other nations, but I think we try to influence them as well, so it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.  We can assert our own national sovereignty (which I think is good), but we need to honor the sovereignty of other nations, too.  We don't always do that.

Everybody's always trying to get leverage over each other.

Maybe if taken to its extreme, but in the sense of "nationalism" being a synonym with "patriotism," I'm okay with it.  I don't have a problem with people who love their country and say so.

I can see the potential for abuse, if it is highly exaggerated or irresponsibly acted upon, but I think the notion of being patriotic, or having a "healthy" sense of nationalism has been so marginalized for so long, that we are just nowhere near any danger of becoming all fascist or bonkers with it.  If anything, I feel like it needs to be nurtured further, especially when I read of people's downright aversion to, or shame of, being American.  What is that about?

There are a lot of really great things about America.  Certainly my experience of it (as a citizen, and growing up in several different States) has been awesome.  I've lived overseas as well, in the Middle East, in Asia, and in Europe.  So I'm not in a silo about America.

My opinion of America is that it rocks.  I'm unashamedly pro-America.  I know we're not perfect by any means, but this is a great country.  I didn't grow up in a ghetto, or in poverty; I had an upper-middle class life, with plenty of ease and privilege and freedom.  I'm not ashamed or apologetic about that; I'm grateful.

It seems to be somewhat of a popular trend (in political articles I've read over the last few years) to bash the USA or express some sense of shame about being American, or wealthy, or whatever.

I refuse to comply with that mentality, and I have little regard for people who want to send me on some guilt-trip because I've done well for myself, or because my country happens to be the primary superpower on the planet.

All I'm trying to say is, I think one can have a healthy sense of patriotism (nationalism) without getting freaky about it.

We're all getting ready to go to the Riverside concert, last one on their USA tour.  We're all stoked.  My kids are big fans too, we always take them to the prog shows, over the last year or two we've gone as a family to see Magma, King Crimson, Stick Men, Steve Hackett, Jean-Michel Jarre... and tonight, Riverside!