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thellama73 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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 Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:04 |
 The Doctor wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Answer my question, Doc. When exactly does a person move from being the exploited to exploiter? You say you can't hire people because you can't afford it. I'm sure most small businesses would say the same thing.
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As long as they aren't shipping jobs overseas so they can pay slave wages, they don't have to hire more than what they need/can afford.
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Fair enough, but that position doesn't mesh with your view that everyone has a right to a job. Hypothetically, if no one was outsourcing and there was still unemployment, you would either have to force people to hire when they can't afford it allow people to go without jobs. How do you reconcile that?
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:05 |
What's the easiest task? Giving everybody what they want or making everybody want only something that can be given to everyone?
I say we meticulously remove certain desires within the human genetic code - such as for possessions, society, civility, any type of social order or conceptual thinking. I say we demolish humanity's desire for religion (of any kind) organization, currency/economy/trade, art, intelligence, and competition. Let's destroy the human's urge for personal gain, any sort of prejudice or judgement, and then take their lusts and quell them. Let's also destroy the human's usage of language and symbolism and take all beliefs of any backing and send them to surreptitiously rot, forgotten by all.
Let's brainwash all humans into desiring (and loving) only to sleep in dirt houses and play with twigs all day (mating becoming biologically regulated and neither selective nor oppressive). Then everyone could have what they wanted and nobody would be oppressed. There would be no downtrodden poverty stricken homeless, and there'd be no virulently corrupt wealthy elite to contend with. We could all be happy (except for being voraciously eaten by packs of wild animals, drowning in a flood, succumbing to food poisoning, or being hit by lighting, which, to be fair, is quite likely in our current state).
It seems plausible to me.
Edited by Alitare - October 19 2011 at 19:06
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:05 |
The Doctor wrote:
Sure. There could be plenty of reasons someone doesn't have a job besides there are no jobs. He could be a layabout. Maybe he shows up to interviews with a beer. Maybe he's a drug addict. So what? He is still a member of society and has value even if he can't get a job.So the company has to prefer to hire this alcoholic and losing money instead of hiring people in other countries which will be more productive and will produce the goods that the people here want to buy. Nice.
Of course that person still has value. But we don't have to find it for him.
Greed, plain and simple is what is moving jobs overseas. Wrong. There might be a few cases, but if companies stayed here and payed their employees much more, don;t you see that would create even MORE unemployment since they wouldn't be able to afford having so many employees? They can pay people in China $3 a day that would cost them much more here. And why give that money to employees when you can pay slave wages and stuff your own pockets even fatter?You really hate the wealthy.
How am I making each individual less important?You want a group to decide for everybody. That's why. And you want the less fortunate to be carried around instead of giving them a chance to come back on their own.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:06 |
The T wrote:
TheDoctor, quick question: do you think that, if given the power, you could set things straight in this world? |
Absolutely not. I'm not a megalomaniac. I only wish I were.  Seriously, I don't have the charisma, the patience, or the knowledge base to fix all the world's problems. I don't think any one person does. Nor are all of my answers necessarily THE answer. But I do believe things need to start moving in a more cooperative less competitive way for our civilization to survive. The exact details I will leave to better men/women than myself.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:07 |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Any Colour You Like
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:08 |
Alitare wrote:
What's the easiest task? Giving everybody what they want or making everybody want only something that can be given to everyone?
I say we meticulously remove certain desires within the human genetic code - such as for possessions, society, civility, any type of social order or conceptual thinking. I say we demolish humanity's desire for religion (of any kind) organization, currency/economy/trade, art, intelligence, and competition. Let's destroy the human's urge for personal gain, any sort of prejudice or judgement, and then take their lusts and quell them. Let's also destroy the human's usage of language and symbolism and take all beliefs of any backing and send them to surreptitiously rot, forgotten by all.
Let's brainwash all humans into desiring (and loving) only to sleep in dirt houses and play with twigs all day (mating becoming biologically regulated and neither selective nor oppressive). Then everyone could have what they wanted and nobody would be oppressed. There would be no downtrodden poverty stricken homeless, and there'd be no virulently corrupt wealthy elite to contend with. We could all be happy (except for being voraciously eaten by packs of wild animals, drowning in a flood, succumbing to food poisoning, or being hit by lighting, which, to be fair, is quite likely in our current state).
It seems plausible to me.
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I would go one step further. I'd remove all the barriers of the box. The walls would not collapse in upon you, but you would exist in a weightless, complete state of open conciousness. Desiring nothing, needing nothing, feeling nothing.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:09 |
The Doctor wrote:
The T wrote:
TheDoctor, quick question: do you think that, if given the power, you could set things straight in this world? |
Absolutely not. I'm not a megalomaniac. I only wish I were.
Seriously, I don't have the charisma, the patience, or the knowledge base to fix all the world's problems. I don't think any one person does. Nor are all of my answers necessarily THE answer. But I do believe things need to start moving in a more cooperative less competitive way for our civilization to survive. The exact details I will leave to better men/women than myself.
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Nobody can. And there are no better men/women than yourself to decide what's good and bad for each and every one of us. There is nobody better than YOU to decide what is good and bad for YOU.
People can be quite cooperative when they are not compelled to be....
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:10 |
Any Colour You Like wrote:
Alitare wrote:
What's the easiest task? Giving everybody what they want or making everybody want only something that can be given to everyone?
I say we meticulously remove certain desires within the human genetic code - such as for possessions, society, civility, any type of social order or conceptual thinking. I say we demolish humanity's desire for religion (of any kind) organization, currency/economy/trade, art, intelligence, and competition. Let's destroy the human's urge for personal gain, any sort of prejudice or judgement, and then take their lusts and quell them. Let's also destroy the human's usage of language and symbolism and take all beliefs of any backing and send them to surreptitiously rot, forgotten by all.
Let's brainwash all humans into desiring (and loving) only to sleep in dirt houses and play with twigs all day (mating becoming biologically regulated and neither selective nor oppressive). Then everyone could have what they wanted and nobody would be oppressed. There would be no downtrodden poverty stricken homeless, and there'd be no virulently corrupt wealthy elite to contend with. We could all be happy (except for being voraciously eaten by packs of wild animals, drowning in a flood, succumbing to food poisoning, or being hit by lighting, which, to be fair, is quite likely in our current state).
It seems plausible to me.
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I would go one step further. I'd remove all the barriers of the box. The walls would not collapse in upon you, but you would exist in a weightless, complete state of open conciousness. Desiring nothing, needing nothing, feeling nothing.
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We need a virus to turn us all into zombies. We would eat flesh. Eventually, the last one standing would have to eat himself.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:11 |
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Any Colour You Like
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:11 |
The T wrote:
Any Colour You Like wrote:
Alitare wrote:
What's the easiest task? Giving everybody what they want or making everybody want only something that can be given to everyone?
I say we meticulously remove certain desires within the human genetic code - such as for possessions, society, civility, any type of social order or conceptual thinking. I say we demolish humanity's desire for religion (of any kind) organization, currency/economy/trade, art, intelligence, and competition. Let's destroy the human's urge for personal gain, any sort of prejudice or judgement, and then take their lusts and quell them. Let's also destroy the human's usage of language and symbolism and take all beliefs of any backing and send them to surreptitiously rot, forgotten by all.
Let's brainwash all humans into desiring (and loving) only to sleep in dirt houses and play with twigs all day (mating becoming biologically regulated and neither selective nor oppressive). Then everyone could have what they wanted and nobody would be oppressed. There would be no downtrodden poverty stricken homeless, and there'd be no virulently corrupt wealthy elite to contend with. We could all be happy (except for being voraciously eaten by packs of wild animals, drowning in a flood, succumbing to food poisoning, or being hit by lighting, which, to be fair, is quite likely in our current state).
It seems plausible to me.
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I would go one step further. I'd remove all the barriers of the box. The walls would not collapse in upon you, but you would exist in a weightless, complete state of open conciousness. Desiring nothing, needing nothing, feeling nothing.
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We need a virus to turn us all into zombies. We would eat flesh. Eventually, the last one standing would have to eat himself. |
We already have that virus, it's called opinion.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:11 |
Exactly. I actually have a religion. I call it my 'Heaven Daydream'. Or "Regressegesis".
It's the whitest room in all the realms of existence. We are an infinitum of infants lined in one monolithic crib. We are stretched hand in hand forever and the mobile of the soul is suspended just out of reach. We shower one another with endless self - the self proposed in said situation acting metaphorically as the entirety of human emotion. The mobile takes the shape of each mother's face ever conceived, and the machine hums the sweetest song of the spirit, always changing yet always familiar. We experience ourselves as 'the all', and our tears of sorrow flow as freely as our smiles of joviality. We are God and God is the infinite father of the immaculate lullaby. We can sleep, eternally, in the surrealistic arms of the Universal Love (where love is each and every possible feeling in our heart of hearts from the darkest depths of despair to the highest peaks of euphoria) as all-encompassing innocence is washed across our amalgamated unity of mutually shared memories and experiences until the end of time.
Not a religion as much as it is an idea. Not a belief, either.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17964
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:12 |
I go away for a few hours to watch my son play football and come back to several pages later and this is STILL not solved?? Come oooonn people......I expected this to be solved, I mean this is the PA for cryin outloud...
Hurry up!!
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:13 |
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Or we could finally legalize heroin and we can start practicing some redistribution and communism with it....
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:13 |
Catcher10 wrote:
I expected this to be solved, I mean this is the PA for cryin outloud...
Hurry up!!
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You have answered yourself.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:14 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:14 |
The T wrote:
Or we could finally legalize heroin and we can start practicing some redistribution and communism with it.... |
Everyone has the right to a lifetime supply of heroin! (which is probably not very much heroin at all)
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:16 |
The T wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
The T wrote:
TheDoctor, quick question: do you think that, if given the power, you could set things straight in this world? |
Absolutely not. I'm not a megalomaniac. I only wish I were.
Seriously, I don't have the charisma, the patience, or the knowledge base to fix all the world's problems. I don't think any one person does. Nor are all of my answers necessarily THE answer. But I do believe things need to start moving in a more cooperative less competitive way for our civilization to survive. The exact details I will leave to better men/women than myself.
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Nobody can. And there are no better men/women than yourself to decide what's good and bad for each and every one of us. There is nobody better than YOU to decide what is good and bad for YOU.
People can be quite cooperative when they are not compelled to be.... |
There's the problem though. People may be best at deciding what is good and bad for themselves, but too many are without the power to actually do what is best for them, and too many are forced to do what is bad for them because they have no other options. Decision-making by yourself is great, but if you don't have the power to actually do something about your decisions, what's the point?
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:17 |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:17 |
Catcher10 wrote:
I go away for a few hours to watch my son play football and come back to several pages later and this is STILL not solved?? Come oooonn people......I expected this to be solved, I mean this is the PA for cryin outloud...
Hurry up!!
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Well, we almost came up with a solution for world peace, but there were a couple of holdouts on our solution. 
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: October 19 2011 at 19:18 |
That's what granpappy Franklin "Old Cripple" Roosevelt used to tell me when he sat me on his knee and asked me what I wanted for free-mas. I say I'd say 'Some new underwheres. These got holes eated up in 'em'. And, was his wistfully sharp reply, 'Wouldn't you rather have some heroin?'
I slapped him in the face and screamed: No, I hate the sh*t outta Velvet Underground.
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