The Theist - Agnostic - Atheist Poll

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Dean wrote: ^ Oh dear, it looks like I've been arguing with people from each camp  ...  ... Tell me about it. Of course I would be glad if some of the atheists that are following the discussion could overcome their negative feelings towards my line of argueing, watch the video in the other poll and post some comments. Eventually they could even vote ...

I tried, trust me I tried, my ears stopped hearing just before my eyes healed over. It doesn't matter what other people think, know, or believe and nothing anyone says, does or writes is going to make a difference - that's not defeatist, that's realist, real realist, real pragmatic realist, real honest to goodness pragmatic realist.

Trademark wrote: Jay, have you ever had one of those moments where you're playing and you look down and just watch your fingers move as if it weren't you doing it?  And yet the second you lose that feeling (i.e. start wondering how it could happen), you come crashing back to your old self.  To use Santana's term its purely "Supernatural".

Negoba wrote: Trademark wrote: Jay, have you ever had one of those moments where you're playing and you look down and just watch your fingers move as if it weren't you doing it?  And yet the second you lose that feeling (i.e. start wondering how it could happen), you come crashing back to your old self.  To use Santana's term its purely "Supernatural".     Absolutely, you just hold on and let it go. To bad the longest it ever lasts is a song or two for me and Santana can do it all night.   He's a great example, his licks are actually pretty ordinary but his tone and articulation are sometimes just "other-worldly."   Some guys can just tune into that. I can't.   One of the best guitarist I ever saw live was a guy called Little Charlie from San Francisco. His blues band was called Little Charlie and the Nightcats, and their lead singer was one of the many reincarnations of elvis.   They have many records and they're ok but live, it's like the guy had a cable from the back of his head off into the astral plane.

The closest to that I've had a prog show was actually at the Yes in the Present show, during Close to the Edge. Obviously the singer was glowing because he was living the chance of a lifetime, but the audience was just humming with energy. The communal feeling I had during "I get up, I get down" was something I'll never forget.

Edited by Negoba - December 10 2009 at 10:48

Negoba wrote: The closest to that I've had a prog show was actually at the Yes in the Present show, during Close to the Edge. Obviously the singer was glowing because he was living the chance of a lifetime, but the audience was just humming with energy. The communal feeling I had during "I get up, I get down" was something I'll never forget. And yes, Mike, that kind of subjective experience does affect my beliefs in the nature of the Universe.   Umphrey's Mcgee does a pretty good job of tapping that energy, though they're a jam-prog hybrid thing.     I've heard that about Johnny Winter...you're not the only with a story about him just playing from another plane of existence. I never got to see that though.   Little Charlie is supposedly retiring  but Ezrin is continuing on. Most of Ezrin's energy transfers to disc pretty well, but Charlie was just another artist live. I saw him at a little club in San Fran from about 10 feet away. I rarely go to big shows anymore. It's virtually impossible to get that experience.

Dean wrote:   Some people have a need for something that they cannot quite identify ... something more than just breathing in and out ... People searching for whatever they are looking for will find their own answers in their own good time - you cannot push them, a little guidance maybe, but they will find whatever works for them and they will live by that or with that - the greater their need the sooner they will find the comfortable answer perhaps, I don't know - I'm guessing. I have reached the point where none of these answers were satisfactory or unsatisfactory, believable or unbelievable, but just not necessary - it wasn't the solution that was at fault, but the question, or more accurately the need to have something I could not quite identify.

Mike, this thing has run its course for awhile.

jampa17 wrote: I think Mike could rest now, as the way the poll is going, his side is ahead and there are more non believers so. why is he still trying to preach more??? It seems like the PA fans are more self individual believers and that should be enough good for him right?

The poll is a revealing figure, but some people needed to discuss the subject - not only Mike.
If he hadn't meet believers discussing about faith, belief, agnosticism, atheism, etc... he wouldn't have gone on and the thread would have stopped at Page 1.

jampa17 wrote: PS: why you change your avatar dude...???!!!

Because Blonde Aryan housewives (English, Norse, German, American or Russian) are some of the many incarnations of Evil.
If Satan exists, he speaks a germanic language (which could explain why the catholic priest perform exorcisms in Latin - despite the fact that Hebrew or Arab are mightier languages on a magical/occult/religious level).

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Sorry, but religion is an ongoing problem on this planet ... as long as religion continues, threads like this one will be necessary.

Perhaps, but it's hard to win converts with an attitude openly assailing people's dearest beliefs. This is something either the New Atheists don't understand or don't care enough about. Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett seem to be the more able to handle it though, perhaps given their backgrounds in psychology and philosophy respectively. Some people on the fence may take well to this "new sort of attack on religion," something that doesn't care about hurt feelings, but revealing science as it were to mature religious people with attacks is only going to make them defensive and hurt all the more, because honestly they have no good response to the attacks. It could make them bitter, and in fact probably does. Truthfully, I think it would be a 100% good thing if most forms of religion were gone overnight and scientific literacy went through the roof all around the world. In reality, that is completely impossible. Scientists have to learn to be persuasive and caring when dealing with these closely held beliefs, not for the sake of being less than upfront with the truth, but for the sake of actually convincing people to believe as they do.