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Points: 8052 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:34
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Now now, I love the lyrics to White Hammer.  What's your gripe with it?


Not a lot happens with the backdrop of inquisitions, witches, magics whatever... it's just not very well developed. Also, it ends on a slight 'low', which is clearly intended to make a real effect, but doesn't (for me). A couple of the ideas and sonic effects are really good. Elsewhere, I think, Hammill has an ability to make basically every word or idea included in a lyric matter, I think here he doesn't pull that off.
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Points: 16111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:34
Careful James, posting lyrics could get us shut down
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:35
Is Hammill solo really just VdGG with another name, musically speaking?
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:36
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Edited by James - December 03 2008 at 16:58
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:37
Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Is Hammill solo really just VdGG with another name, musically speaking?


Not really, no.
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:38
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Is Hammill solo really just VdGG with another name, musically speaking?


Not really, no.


How would you describe it then? I'm curious.
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Points: 11746 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:39
Your Killer alternate lyrics kinda suck compared to my version James. Wink

And Rob, I couldn't agree with you more about Peart's lyrics. Especially on Hemispheres.

RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:39
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Edited by James - December 03 2008 at 16:58
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Points: 8052 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:39
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:


Sorry, bad link.

I'll quote from the silly Blender article:

02 • Neil Peart
An ace on the rototoms, a train wreck on the typewriter.

Drummers are good at many things: exploding, drowning in their own vomit, drumming. But the Rush skinsman proved they should never write lyrics—or read books. Peart opuses like “Cygnus X-1” are richly awful tapestries of fantasy and science fiction, steeped in an eighth-grade understanding of Western philosophy. 2112, Rush’s 1976 concept album based on individualist thinker Ayn Rand’s novella Anthem, remains an awe-inspiring low point in the sordid relationship between rock and ideas. Worst lyric: “I stand atop a spiral stair/An oracle confronts me there/He leads me on light years away/Through astral nights, galactic days” (“Oracle: The Dream”)

LOL
 
Please take this sh*t along with your sh*tty VDGG comments back to the Suede Room. OuchAngryWinkLOL


To be perfectly honest, Hemispheres is one of the most painful bits of lyrics I've heard in a while, and Entre Nous, Free Will and A Farewell To Kings are rather shabby, too. However, I actually love Peart's lyrics for Caress Of Steel, and 2112 and Cygnus X-I (BOOK 1: The Good One) have their moments, too. I think he's honestly not that bad, just occasionally very messy and prone to rigidly dragging out tortured rhyme schemes when a bit more fluidity would perhaps serve the lyric better, and you sort of get the impression that a lot of the words are consequently not very 'planned'.

He's not too bad, but he's not great either, in my view.


Angry

Killer does have rather silly lyrics, you must admit to that


nonononono

All the phrases build atmosphere, and contribute or heighten something, and the piece delivers an incredible moral message through a metaphor. The piece is well connected, develops, capitalises on previous phrases later in the lyric, and includes some rather choice sonic effects.
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:40
Originally posted by Bern Bern wrote:

Your Killer alternate lyrics kinda suck compared to my version James. Wink

And Rob, I couldn't agree with you more about Peart's lyrics. Especially on Hemispheres.


Hemispheres is something of a black hole (giggle giggle) for me, even as a Rush fan. Never enjoyed it very much on any level. One of the few classic Rush songs I just don't get.
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Points: 11746 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:42
Don't start me James. I've got A LOT of alternate lyrics. LOL

RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:43
Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Is Hammill solo really just VdGG with another name, musically speaking?


Not really, no.


How would you describe it then? I'm curious.


Well you have some of his more epic tracks, like A Louse Is Not A Home (written for VdGG but they split up and it was never used when reformed.  However, it was performed by the whole band for Hammill solo) that are very VdGG-like.

But then you have stuff like Like Veronica.  Pure lyrical beauty that one.  A genius song.

Think of his solo stuff more akin to Refugees or tracks from The Aerosol Grey Machine, like Ferret and Featherbird (which was re-recorded later for solo use).  It's hard to explain, every single album sounds completely different.
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Points: 16111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:43
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:


Sorry, bad link.

I'll quote from the silly Blender article:

02 • Neil Peart
An ace on the rototoms, a train wreck on the typewriter.

Drummers are good at many things: exploding, drowning in their own vomit, drumming. But the Rush skinsman proved they should never write lyrics—or read books. Peart opuses like “Cygnus X-1” are richly awful tapestries of fantasy and science fiction, steeped in an eighth-grade understanding of Western philosophy. 2112, Rush’s 1976 concept album based on individualist thinker Ayn Rand’s novella Anthem, remains an awe-inspiring low point in the sordid relationship between rock and ideas. Worst lyric: “I stand atop a spiral stair/An oracle confronts me there/He leads me on light years away/Through astral nights, galactic days” (“Oracle: The Dream”)

LOL
 
Please take this sh*t along with your sh*tty VDGG comments back to the Suede Room. OuchAngryWinkLOL


To be perfectly honest, Hemispheres is one of the most painful bits of lyrics I've heard in a while, and Entre Nous, Free Will and A Farewell To Kings are rather shabby, too. However, I actually love Peart's lyrics for Caress Of Steel, and 2112 and Cygnus X-I (BOOK 1: The Good One) have their moments, too. I think he's honestly not that bad, just occasionally very messy and prone to rigidly dragging out tortured rhyme schemes when a bit more fluidity would perhaps serve the lyric better, and you sort of get the impression that a lot of the words are consequently not very 'planned'.

He's not too bad, but he's not great either, in my view.


Angry

Killer does have rather silly lyrics, you must admit to that


nonononono

All the phrases build atmosphere, and contribute or heighten something, and the piece delivers an incredible moral message through a metaphor. The piece is well connected, develops, capitalises on previous phrases later in the lyric, and includes some rather choice sonic effects.


*sigh*

I could say the same thing about Rush. I never said they were bad, I just said rather silly. Which they are. And you can't convince me otherwise
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Points: 11746 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:43
Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Originally posted by Bern Bern wrote:

Your Killer alternate lyrics kinda suck compared to my version James. Wink

And Rob, I couldn't agree with you more about Peart's lyrics. Especially on Hemispheres.


Hemispheres is something of a black hole (giggle giggle) for me, even as a Rush fan. Never enjoyed it very much on any level. One of the few classic Rush songs I just don't get.


I like it musically. Along with 2112 and The Farewell to Kings, it could be the only albums by them I'm still tempted to spin sometimes. However, I kinda hate the lyrics. I can't believe they're praised or anything.

RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:44
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Edited by James - December 03 2008 at 16:57
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Points: 8052 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:45
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Is Hammill solo really just VdGG with another name, musically speaking?


Not really, no.


No, in short. There's a lot less in the way of theatricality, or, at least, a different type of theatricality, generally. There are quite a few true acoustic-led 'balladic' (hate the term, but it's the only way to convey it. Perhaps singer-songwriter) pieces with very clever twists, the lyrics are perhaps a bit more introspective and simple in terms of themes in general, but not always. I think, perhaps, the best way to explain it is that the dynamic is very different. It's the same musicians, sure, but there is a lot more focus on bass ideas and the composition as a whole than the playing, and not every VDGG musician features on a song.

'sides, Solo Hammill can vary radically in style.

Best way I could explain it. Not sufficient.
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Points: 11746 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:46
James dreams about me at night.

RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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Points: 10665 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:47
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:


nonononono

All the phrases build atmosphere, and contribute or heighten something, and the piece delivers an incredible moral message through a metaphor. The piece is well connected, develops, capitalises on previous phrases later in the lyric, and includes some rather choice sonic effects.


*sigh*

I could say the same thing about Rush. I never said they were bad, I just said rather silly. Which they are. And you can't convince me otherwise


I agree. It's all about what you read into them. Hammill usually writes good lyrics, but this isn't an example of that. Being a fan I think you're more inclined to read more into it than what is actually there. Just as you might do with Rush.
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Points: 16111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:48
I wish James would dream about me at night
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Points: 16111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2008 at 16:49
Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:


nonononono

All the phrases build atmosphere, and contribute or heighten something, and the piece delivers an incredible moral message through a metaphor. The piece is well connected, develops, capitalises on previous phrases later in the lyric, and includes some rather choice sonic effects.


*sigh*

I could say the same thing about Rush. I never said they were bad, I just said rather silly. Which they are. And you can't convince me otherwise


I agree. It's all about what you read into them. Hammill usually writes good lyrics, but this isn't an example of that. Being a fan I think you're more inclined to read more into it than what is actually there. Just as you might do with Rush.


I think this is a battle of the two biggest fanboy cults of all time. But the VdGG-ers get extra credit (which is unfair) because their band is avant and not widely popular Wink
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