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Quo Vadis Ukraine?
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

  Since a lot of people here are eager to see the war escalate, possibly involving Western Europe or eventually the whole world, things could get interesting.  

Just for the record, nobody said this.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

You’re attacking me, albeit in a cowardly, passive-aggressive way. Why would you do that if you weren’t angry? Well, nevermind.
I didn't attack you and I am not angry at all, the anger you speak of must be projection because I'm feeling fine. Now its time for your third goodbye.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

  Since a lot of people here are eager to see the war escalate, possibly involving Western Europe or eventually the whole world, things could get interesting.  

Just for the record, nobody said this.

No they didn't and quite frankly if standing up to motherf*cking ignorant punk-ass bullies offends someone's sensibilities, they're gonna have to wait for me to kick the motherf*cking ignorant punk-ass bullies in the nuts, and then we can have a sociopolitical debate.   Sorry.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Polish president on grain dispute: "Ukraine is like a drowning man, it can drag us into the depths"


https://news.yahoo.com/polish-president-grain-dispute-ukraine-202459286.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall


Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 12 2023 at 17:42
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Humorously enough, the Russian apologists and Putinphiles on this thread just can't seem to admit how badly their boy Putin screwed up, not to mention how badly the Russian army apparatus underestimated the resolve of Ukraine and its Western allies. 

Not only did Putin botch the invasion -- revealing how decrepit his army really is -- he tanked the Russian economy, had to assassinate many of his disaffected henchmen (word of warning: stay only on the main floor of a hotel; otherwise, you'll have this strange urge to leap to your death), and also forced formerly non-aligned countries like Finland and Sweden to accept admittance into NATO. Now Armenia is looking to the West also because Russia utterly failed in their alliance.

Putin's post-Wall dream of a reunified USSR has collapsed into the dung heap that is Russia currently. How embarrassing Vladdy has to beg for help from North Korea. LOL 




Edited by The Dark Elf - October 12 2023 at 17:50
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Prog-jester View Drop Down
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omphaloskepsis old news, we're besties again: https://kyivindependent.com/duda-no-diplomatic-conflict-between-poland-ukraine/

Edited by Prog-jester - October 12 2023 at 18:07
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France's prospective:

On southern front, Ukraine's struggle to pierce Russian lines

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231012-on-southern-front-ukraine-s-struggle-to-pierce-russian-lines



Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 12 2023 at 18:19
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Edited by snobb - October 12 2023 at 23:14
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

  Since a lot of people here are eager to see the war escalate, possibly involving Western Europe or eventually the whole world, things could get interesting.  

Just for the record, nobody said this.

Couldn't resist replying to this before my morning coffee. Many people in this thread are masters in indirectly implying things while never explicitly saying them. Well, if nobody else, Zelensky has said this time and time again, and as far as I remember most of you who criticise me are glowing supporters of him.

See you in a month! And remember, pile on the insults. You know you want to ...
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snobb View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Humorously enough, the Russian apologists and Putinphiles on this thread just can't seem to admit how badly their boy Putin screwed up, not to mention how badly the Russian army apparatus underestimated the resolve of Ukraine and its Western allies. 

Not only did Putin botch the invasion -- revealing how decrepit his army really is -- he tanked the Russian economy, had to assassinate many of his disaffected henchmen (word of warning: stay only on the main floor of a hotel; otherwise, you'll have this strange urge to leap to your death), and also forced formerly non-aligned countries like Finland and Sweden to accept admittance into NATO. Now Armenia is looking to the West also because Russia utterly failed in their alliance.

Putin's post-Wall dream of a reunified USSR has collapsed into the dung heap that is Russia currently. How embarrassing Vladdy has to beg for help from North Korea. LOL 






Even more - Ukraine was largest potential friend of russia, the country with partially similar mentality, in big part same religion (Christian orthodox),speaking in big part same language (russian). What putler did now - instead of possible friend he built huge enemy for ages. No russian Empire is possible without Ukraine, so in fact putler destroyed the last russian imperialists chance to return time back
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bro lied again (remember when he called me a Bandera fan), not unexpected but still wild
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Except that you revealed in a previous post that you're really only satisfied when Russia is dismantled and integrated into the West. I know this sounds like Russian propaganda, but it was you who said it)
why are you lying? I literally never said that


Edited by Prog-jester - October 13 2023 at 03:19
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

  Since a lot of people here are eager to see the war escalate, possibly involving Western Europe or eventually the whole world, things could get interesting.  

Just for the record, nobody said this.

Couldn't resist replying to this before my morning coffee. Many people in this thread are masters in indirectly implying things while never explicitly saying them. Well, if nobody else, Zelensky has said this time and time again, and as far as I remember most of you who criticise me are glowing supporters of him.

I guess if I asked you to show Zelensky saying this you will show us a video (or more) that shows Zelensky asking for more help, which of course is his right and some may say his duty to do. No news there. Chances are Zelensky believes that involving more Western support including soldiers will lead to a faster end to the war. For sure he hasn't said anything like war should escalate to Western Europe or even the world, even if of course one can discuss whether there is a chance of this happening. This is exactly the reason why the Western countries do *not* participate directly in this war other than sending arms and a handful of experts. Because they are actually *not* eager to get further involved, despite the claims here that they want Ukraine in the NATO and (in some videos) that they are keen on war on Russia. Interestingly at the same time we learn that NATO leaves Ukraine alone and Ukraine will lose because of waning support from the West, and that the whole war was actually NATO's idea and it's the NATO that really wants it, not the Ukrainians. WTF?!
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

bro lied again (remember when he called me a Bandera fan), not unexpected but still wild
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Except that you revealed in a previous post that you're really only satisfied when Russia is dismantled and integrated into the West. I know this sounds like Russian propaganda, but it was you who said it)
why are you lying? I literally never said that

My apologies, it was actually Snobb who had written this:

Originally posted by Snobb Snobb wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


       ...........They have lost the war..........



this is a straight citation from (most probably) your main information source - "Russia Today" TV channel :)


For sure, the open question is what means for Ukraine to win the war :

1. To return back the Eastern (Luhansk + Donetsk areas) and Southern (Kherson area & seaside) occupied territories

2. To return back ALL occupied territories (as below, plus Crimea) = it looks like the most well-balanced solution, accepted by all sides

3. To return back all occupied territories and continue towards russia motherland with a main target to initiate the dismantling of criminal chunta's regime and possible breakdown of russian empire to 7-12 independent (and predominantly non-russian) national states

It's obvious to me that he wants #3 ...
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

I guess if I asked you to show Zelensky saying this you will show us a video (or more) that shows Zelensky asking for more help, which of course is his right and some may say his duty to do. No news there. Chances are Zelensky believes that involving more Western support including soldiers will lead to a faster end to the war. For sure he hasn't said anything like war should escalate to Western Europe or even the world, even if of course one can discuss whether there is a chance of this happening. This is exactly the reason why the Western countries do *not* participate directly in this war other than sending arms and a handful of experts. Because they are actually *not* eager to get further involved, despite the claims here that they want Ukraine in the NATO and (in some videos) that they are keen on war on Russia. Interestingly at the same time we learn that NATO leaves Ukraine alone and Ukraine will lose because of waning support from the West, and that the whole war was actually NATO's idea and it's the NATO that really wants it, not the Ukrainians. WTF?!

Zelensky has been demanding nuclear weapons even before Russia invasion (at the Munich Security Conference), and throughout the conflict he has been requesting equipment and assistance from NATO that would escalate the war if granted. Of course to my knowledge he hasn't specifically said "I want WW3!". His actions simply suggest that he would have no problem with a wider escalation.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 13 2023 at 04:02
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



       ...........They have lost the war..........
</td></tr></t></table><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">this is a straight citation from (most probably) your main information source - "Russia Today" TV channel :)</span><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">For sure, the open question is what means for Ukraine to win the war :</span><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">1. To return back the Eastern (Luhansk + Donetsk areas) and Southern (Kherson area & seaside) occupied territories</span><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">2. To return back ALL occupied territories (as below, plus Crimea) = it looks like the most well-balanced solution, accepted by all sides</span><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style=": rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">3. To return back all occupied territories and continue towards russia motherland with a main target to initiate the dismantling of criminal chunta's regime and possible breakdown of russian empire to 7-12 independent (and predominantly non-russian) national states</span><span style=": rgb248, 248, 252; font-size: 10px;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">
</span>

It's obvious to me that he wants #3 ...
[/QUOTE]


It doesn't depend on what I want.

Everyone familiar with russian history(and mentality) not only from their supported youtube knows, that their biggest enemy are themselves. I can't imagine someone trying to change russia from outside. All their changes (always in a brutal, Eurasian, form) come from inside.

To know, what happens there now one need to live there, speak their language, know people - be one of them. Since we are not, we can't imagine, what happens next.

Edited by snobb - October 13 2023 at 04:44
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


Zelensky has been demanding nuclear weapons even before Russia invasion (at the Munich Security Conference), 

I don't find it.
https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


Zelensky has been demanding nuclear weapons even before Russia invasion (at the Munich Security Conference), 

I don't find it.

His comments on discontinuing the Budapest memorandum can be interpreted as a move towards nuclear armament.
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lazland View Drop Down
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This unutterably depressing thread is a very good example of why The UN needs to pass a resolution restricting humanity to a maximum of five minutes a day online unless and until they can prove they are capable of conducting a rational discourse in a mature manner understanding that complex situations require nuance and seeing both sides.

If anything, this is even more depressing than that Covid thread, which I did get involved with, when nobody would listen to any rational debate. I will not get involved in this one and am dreading a similar one re Israel and Palestine.


Edited by lazland - October 13 2023 at 05:25
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


Zelensky has been demanding nuclear weapons even before Russia invasion (at the Munich Security Conference), 

I don't find it.
His comments on discontinuing the Budapest memorandum can be interpreted as a move towards nuclear armament.

He has rather clearly explained what his problem with the Budapest memorandum is, and it isn't what you claim it is. "can be interpreted as" is much weaker than what you initially claimed anyway. Many things can be interpreted in many ways.
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^ When the question is what could escalate this conflict globally, it matters how all the players involved interpret it, including Russia. 
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