Objectivity in rating albums |
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Argentinfonico
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 05 2021 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 368 |
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One thing is certain and irrefutable: Art is objective, perception is subjective. In fact, I believe that there is nothing more objective than a work of art; everything is there for a meaning and a reason. It takes a lot of work to completely detach oneself from how one feels and enjoys music in order to create a serious review of a song, an album, a band or whatever one wants to qualify it, but that doesn't make it impossible or extremely difficult. You can evaluate points such as originality, complexity, the development of the instrumental line-up on the album, the production, the main melodies and the ambience within them, what the musician is trying to achieve, and many more. Around here, many of us dare to rate with words some works that have a very special and vast background, for which perhaps months of work are needed so that nothing escapes the rating. Even so, I think that one should not try to leave one's tastes aside when it comes to rating, because it is one's own action and it carries one's own name. If we are not going to express our feelings in our reviews, then let's leave them to the robots!
Edited by Argentinfonico - May 16 2022 at 13:47 |
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Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
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I agree that rating with words is a much better way to go, because then you can explain the reasoning behind your personal rating. I enjoy reading well written reviews. Biases will always be present in the system, but I think that, as a reviewer, if you examine the art with enough sincerity, you can suppress that. No, we don't want to leave them to the robots. We've all seen Terminator and know how that turns out.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15119 |
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I see your points, but I still think, it would be good having criterion/criteria that could include other values than only liking, as an appreciation of some general artistic values.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15119 |
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While I think very positive of "rating with words" considered for it self, I miss in that kind of rating only the possiblity of good accumulating of many persons opinions which could show which albums have been very appreciated by many over a period of many years, or what I call "the great classics".
Edited by David_D - May 17 2022 at 03:48 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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There have been a few people now who have suggested now that the accumulating of many peoples opinions is not always/necessarily an accurate way of deciding “the great classics”. The problems with ratings, and especially when people attempt to be objective about it rather than subjective, is that it all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more votes one thing has, the more people listen to it over something else that might be (objectively or subjectively) just as good, or even better, and then give another vote to keep it at the top. Furthermore, as the aforementioned people have suggested, a lot of people attempt to be objective and rate an album higher than they would otherwise, simply because they want to recognise/reflect what others think. It is incredibly difficult on a site like PA for anything to compete with “the great classics”, which is not to suggest they are not great, but that there are plenty of other things that are just as “great” but can’t compete with the what has been so established that even people who don’t like something (and say so in their review), will still give it a four or five star rating because it might not be to their liking, but they can recognise how important it is. Purely subjective ratings would be far more useful in my eyes. When the reviews say something different than the rating, and that happens often on PA, there is a problem with the ratings, in mt opinion. Much of it comes down to people attempting objectivity. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17510 |
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Hi, Only one problem ... the majority of these ratings has no words ... ohh, except like or dislike. There is no reasoning, otherwise they would mention, or write about it, no?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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wiz_d_kidd
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 13 2018 Location: EllicottCityMD Status: Offline Points: 1423 |
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That's why PA should do away with ratings only, and require people to write a review which explains their viewpoint and why they rated it high or low. It's too easy for people to do a "drive-by shooting" where they shoot down the entire portfolio of an artist or genre with 1 star ratings without explanation. If they really want to express their likes or dislikes, make them write a valid review which can be peer-checked (as reviews currently are) to eliminate mindless or inconsiderate babble. If we want to elevate the credibility of the PA review system, we need to eliminate the lazy (and sometimes abusive) "star clickers" and rely on those willing to take the time to express themselves. Personally, I'm not a prolific reviewer like many here on PA, but of the 43 I've done, only 3 were rating-only. All others had words of explanation. |
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Davesax1965
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This Wikipedia page may come in useful here.......
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F |
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Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
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Music serves different purposes, which is why there are so many different genres, and it takes some aural intelligence to develop one's own personal tastes for each category.
When I listen to music that requires greater attentiveness, like progressive rock, my antenna is detecting many aspects of the music. But, it is not simply a ticking of boxes. How the sound elements (tone, pitch, duration, dynamics) are selected, arranged, and blended to produce a song that evokes something that reverberates with me and stimulates a response ... physically (do I start tapping my foot or start dancing?), emotionally (does it drag up some nostalgic memory or provide me with energy to tackle a challenge?), spiritually (does it make me appreciate something more or cause me to question something?). These are intangible aspects of music that help me to decide if I "like it" or "don't like it". Often this occurs without much deliberation. I also sense with my antenna to detect if music is written in a sincere manner ... no matter what construction methods were used. |
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Grumpyprogfan
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Without a doubt. But then, the same could be said for probably 99% of the topics posted in this forum! 😄🤪 |
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David_D
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Sorry, Jake, as I misunderstood "rating with words", and now can see that it is meant to contain rating by numbers. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
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Clarification: I meant a better way to go for me personally. I'm not advocating that PA drop ratings. In fact, I realize that some people have severe time constraints, so the 5 star rating system and quick polls are perfect for them. Also, the ratings are great for people whose talents lie elsewhere than writing reviews. Nevertheless, I prefer well written reviews, because I do not find much of substance in an X-out-of-five star rating. But, what do I know? If you look at my avatar, I'm a 3 star ... fair to middlin'. Edited by Jaketejas - May 17 2022 at 10:48 |
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David_D
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That doesn't seem to be so practical to me, and everybody should have a possibility for giving expression to what they think of an album.
Edited by David_D - May 17 2022 at 09:46 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40087 |
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^ For me, the ideal practical compromise between ratings and reviews is to give ten times the weighting to ratings which also include reviews, just like PA does already.
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Jaketejas
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 27 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1990 |
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Well, according to your Avatar, you're a 3 star ... but, you do have over 19,000 points! So, I guess we can trust your judgement ... at least until a 4+ star comes along (or a 3 star with at least 20,000 points). |
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David_D
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I'd even say that is much weight to ratings with reviews, but I'm glad to get it to know as I didn't realise it.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15119 |
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"Like" as criterion seems to me too much of Pop-like. I guess, it would be best just with stars and reviews. Stars symbolise a broader appreciation than just liking.
Edited by David_D - May 18 2022 at 01:23 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15119 |
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I certainly think, it would be best if we talked about "rating", meaning with stars, and "reviews", meaning with words. "Rating with words" is confusing unless it should contain criteria with single words. Edited by David_D - May 18 2022 at 01:49 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
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Beat me to it. ;-) |
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