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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 12351 |
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He's hardbop, modal, post bop, free jazz, avant-garde jazz, jazz rock fusion, musique concrete, ambient, kosmische, oriental jazz, progressive electronic... all that and more. Always curious, openminded, ever-changing and forwardthinking. There's simply no getting around him. Also anyone who says he's only merit for being at PA is Bitches Brew needs to listen to his 70's albums. Tribute to Jack Johnson doesn't rock? Only someone who hasn't heard it can claim that. The same can be said about Pangaea, Agharta and Dark Magus.
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Angelo ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
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I think that quote says it all....
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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Well, as one of my loyal followers ![]() |
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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Like some perhaps I don't use them interchangeably. Perhaps I've been sort of institutionalized by the years spend trying to pigeon hole groups and trying to pound round groups into square holes but I do make a distinction between Fusion and jazz-rock. Fusion being more a flat out style, jazz-rock being more a subtle take on merging jazz and rock (subtle enough that at times it can be even hard to recognize or easy to overlook.. ie Steely Dan or the ABB.) |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Argonaught ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 04 2012 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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Miles Davis, obviously, underestimated the importance of wholesome spousal relationships in the White House. Had Davis lived a few years longer to witness Bubba chase giggling interns with his pants down, he might have felt like apologizing to Mrs. Reagan ![]() |
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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Indeed. Great post. Two points I see. As far as the site Argonaught. Of course it is a bit confusing and contradictory. I do feel most instinctively know and understand this site is a progressive music website, not a prog one. It took some time though, there was a time when certain band additions would raise godawful HELL among the forumites. 'How can you add them to PA's... they are not PROG!!' I think over time most of the forumites came to understand and accept that, plus perhaps finally maturing enough to understand that what is NOT prog/progressive to you.. may well be prog/progressive to someone else and none of the controversial additions caused the site to implode or the Earth to stop revolving. However the more tricky aspect to that are the collaborators themselves... as far as additions Drew. What can you do. Each collab doing these evaluations has their own notions of what belongs here and what doesn't. Thus yes you still have bands being rejected for not being 'prog' when the site is chock full of non-prog bands. What can you do. Collabs are volunteers, just doing the best they can. Where things got dicey is when instead of the forumites going apesh*t over controversial additions.. you had collabs doing it behind the scenes.. and let me tell you. It could.. and did.. get very nasty. I'd suggest that one or both of you contact M@X the site owner. Let him know about the contradiction and confusion one can have over the mission statements. He is an absentee owner... he makes the bucks off the website.. and keeps out and lets us enjoy the forum, however I engaged him personally on site matters and he can be and has been responsive and can engineer changes like that. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Tuzvihar ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 18 2005 Location: C. Schinesghe Status: Offline Points: 13536 |
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Couldn't have said it better!! ![]() |
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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."
Charles Bukowski |
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Argonaught ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 04 2012 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1413 |
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I looked up the "Five-Story Ensemble Not That City" on Youtube and for a moment I thought it was Italian neo-baroque piece about the post-imperial Rome's faded glory (the clues being Post Tyrannica, Not That City, and a bunch of dethroned statues). Upon closer inspection, though, I realized that the musicians' names looked Slavic rather than Italian, and that the statues were not of the Roman patricii, but of the exalted proletariat leaders. Clearly, I need new reading glasses, and a link to somewhere I could buy this music
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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Here you are: http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Products/Five-Storey-Ensemble-Not-That-City__33-AltrOck-spc-033.aspx |
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AEProgman ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2012 Location: Toadstool Status: Offline Points: 1789 |
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Without Miles, I do not believe we would have had the same form of music come from the likes of John McLaughlin (Mahavishnu Orchestra), Billy Cobham, RTF, etc... His 70s stuff should qualify enough for prog (IMHO), but it all started with "In A Silent Way" before the Brew.
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Saperlipopette! ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 12351 |
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No chance. They all came from Miles Davis school of jazz.
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Rednight ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4812 |
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Forget about it! |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18044 |
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I just think that it took someone like Miles doing what he did ... to help other folks figure out that they could do a lot more with music, than they were doing!
As such, Miles is huge and a GIANT in the history of the whole music medium in the 20th century ... the fact that we're trying topigeonhole him, is the part that is sad and ugly ... he belongs amidst the greatest of the century for his expanding vision of what music could do and be!!!!
That is priceless, my friends!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Evolver ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams Joined: October 22 2005 Location: The Idiocracy Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
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I don't think we're pigeonholing him here, just recognizing one aspect of his career.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Guldbamsen ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
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![]() Exactomundo. It's as simple as that. Miles was so much more than these boxes, and I would think most fans of his know this - including the ones on PA. Just because we zone in on certain aspects of a man's career doesn't mean we don't aknowledge all of the other stuff there is to his music - or any other type of music for that matter. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Kati ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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Miles Davis was PROG, after reading this please explain to me why one would not consider him in prog genre?
Over the
next two years, he would pull off a breathtaking act of reinvention, disbanding
his lauded quintet in favour of electrically charged line-ups using two
drummers, two bass players and two, even three, keyboards. It was a process of
exploration that culminated in 1970's Bitches Brew – an
album that spawned a new genre, fusion It was
Betty (his short lived younger wife) who turned Miles's ears towards rock and funk, to James Brown and Sly
Stone and especially to the cosmic forays of JIMI Hendrix, whom she knew and whose music, bafflingly,
had evaded Miles's radar. Filles
de Kilimanjaro,
the album he released in the autumn of 1968, which featured his new wife on its
sleeve and contained two tunes inspired by her, "Mademoiselle Mabry"
and "Frelon Brun". Both are modelled on Hendrix riffs, respectively
"The Wind Cries Mary" and "If 6 Was 9". By then,
Betty had introduced Miles to Jimi in person. The young rock god and jazz elder
hit it off, the mutual fascination leading to talk about playing together. Many of Miles's accomplices would go on to write their own careers in "fusion", among them Joe Zawinul, John McLaughlin, Chick Corea and Larry Young. For drummer Jack De Johnette, the process that created Bitches Brew, while thrilling, had human as much as artistic origins: "It was a midlife crisis played out through experimental jazz." The influence of Hendrix is all over Brew. Like Electric Ladyland, it's primarily a studio creation, complete with splices and special effects, while "Miles Runs the Voodoo Down" echoes Jimi's "Voodoo Chile". In 1970, the two men even appeared on the same bill at the Isle of Wight festival before an audience of 600,000. ![]() ![]() Big hugs ![]() P.S. All the above was copied from internet articles
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Neu!mann ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 21 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 690 |
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That's a nice anecdote, but it never happened. Here's Miles himself describing his meeting after the 1990 Kennedy Center Honors, quoting from his autobiography: "[President] Reagan was nice to us, respectful and everything. But Nancy is the one who has the charm between those two. She seemed like a warm person. She greeted me warmly and I kissed her hand. She liked that." It was at a dinner given that night by Secretary of State George Schultz that Miles had the following encounter with an unnamed politician's wife: At the table where I was sitting, a politician's wife said some silly sh*t about jazz, like "Are we supporting this art form just because it's here in this country, and is it art in its truest form, or are we just being blasé and ignoring jazz because it comes from here and not from Europe, and it comes from black people?" This came from out of the blue. I don't like questions like that because they're just questions from someone who's trying to sound intelligent, when in fact they don't give a damn about it. I looked at her and said, "What is it? Jazz time or something? Why you ask me some sh*t like that?" So she said, "Well, you're a jazz musician, aren't you?" So I said, "I'm a musician, that's all" [...] "Do you really want to know why jazz music isn't given the credit in this country?" [...] "Jazz is ignored here because the white man likes to win everything. White people like to see other white people win just like you do and they can't win when it comes to jazz and blues because black people created this. And so when we play in Europe, white people over there appreciate us because they know who did what and they will admit it. But most white Americans won't." She looked at me and turned all red and sh*t, and then she said, "Well, what have you done that's so important in your life? Why are you here?" "Now, I just hate sh*t like this coming from someone who is ignorant, but who wants to be hip and has forced you into a situation where you're talking to them in this manner. She brought this on herself. So then I said, "Well, I changed music five or six times, so I guess that's what I've done and I guess I don't believe in playing just white compositions." I looked at her real cold and said, "Now, tell me what have you done of any importance other than being white, and that ain't important to me, so tell me what your claim to fame is?" I like the urban internet myth, but the truth is pure Davis... |
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"we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini
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TODDLER ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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I have often connected this to the atmospheric "Space Rock" sound brought through in Jimi Hendrix' music. This is a very long time ago and we have to recall who existed in music then and compare that to what was non-existent. You have to count the percentage of what was being created and compare it to Miles Davis' creations/inventions during that specific point in time and consider that he was a genius that crossed over into Rock music. On Jethro Tull's "Bouree" ..there is a definite Jazz feel. So it may written somewhere that Jethro Tull, the Prog band, were influenced by Jazz music. Yet in Miles Davis' case..he created many, many ideas that were applied in Prog composition and he is denied. Laura Nyro who knew Miles Davis was influenced by his creative ideas. I'm not stating anything about how music sounds stylistically. I'm making reference to a book of ideas that Miles created within a entire change in music. How to write it or what "Not" to write" at a given moment. This is the gift Syd Barrett gave to Roger Waters, however..this time it prevailed in the Jazz world. Laura Nyro doesn't exactly sound like Miles Davis in the obvious sense, but she used his ideas to compose a song, (not a jam), and present a distant atmospheric effect on her piano and the instrumental passages of guitar and horns. Some of her music was Gospel related and reflected in the lyricism how a relationship between a man and a woman was sometimes more about death than the living. She was very depressing and wanted the Jazzy darkscapes to fall between her words. She was into Miles. Todd Rundgren was VERY influenced by Laura Nyro. Almost every chord change he has ever written is literally a piece of her. Beginning with his Nazz phase throughout his entire career. Todd Rundgren formed Utopia. Isn't that Progressive Rock? Miles ideas were widespread in the music industry ..so giving him credit in the area of Prog would be meaningful because he introduced musicians to new ideas.
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18044 |
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Hi,
Kati ... you do know that prog'rs are chauvinist and a woman can't possibly be an artist, much less help her man define music!!!!
Goodness gracious!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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