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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Bravo Dean...Giving one or five stars for no reason is better than giving a rating with a support.
Then delete all reviews and just rate albums. Iván
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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That wasn't remotely what he was saying; you are overreacting to something that is beyond anyone's control. Would you rather they entirely eliminate ratings, and make the site 100% review based?
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Iván - you've got your 20 times weighting - that is recognition enough that your review is 20 times better than a rating only. How you justify the rating you give is completely irrelevant - the review is not about the rating, the review is about the music and your impression of it and not an explanation of how you asign the mark. Someone who just rates an album could have exactly the same view as you, they could have heard the album and made the same conculsion you did - because they didn't write 500 words we will never know that for sure, just as we will never know for sure that he never heard the album. I get it. Trust me, I get it.
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toroddfuglesteg ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Retired Joined: March 04 2008 Location: Retirement Home Status: Offline Points: 3658 |
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I simply think the point, my point anyway, here is that should we really allow both reviews and ratings here as a matter of quantity instead of going for quality in the form of only allowing 100 + words reviews ? That is my point and I would preferable do away with the whole rating only system (all of it) and only go for allowing reviews. I simply think we should be a more hotel than motel. That is throwing the camel in among the pigeons. EDIT: Just to make it clear: I am for reviews with 1-5 stars ratings & I want to do away with ratings without 100 words + reviews. Edited by toroddfuglesteg - March 20 2011 at 15:25 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Yes, I proposed that a lot of times and several members agree, a rating without review is like a guess, you don't know if the guy heard the album or what are his reasons to give a 5 or 1 star rating. In a review you may agree or not, but at least you have a support for the rating. Iván
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 37232 |
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I thought Triceratopsoil meant dispose of ratings altogether, which includes "reviews with ratings". I used to avoid review sites which had ratings attached to the reviews. I think too much time is often spent on justifying ratings with reviews, and have a problem with trying to justify star status. If I rate an album, it is merely a reflection of my taste (how much I like it), and not intended to be sign of universally good quality. In some ways I'd rather the reviews have one section, and any ratings to have another (in other words, no ratings attached to the review). |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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Yes, that was what I meant
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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I don't go hat far because he rating is a visual help for the review, only ratings with reviews attached. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 20 2011 at 15:36 |
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frippism ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 27 2010 Location: Tel Aviv Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
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I don't think that's very possible, and efficient. It would just be a bit weird to have bot a rating average and a review average. That's why I think we should get rid of ratings altogether, the average of ratings compared to reviews might be drastically different (might be I don't know). Also, encouraging people to write reviews instead of just clicking a button will definitely make this site more filled with discussion. A rating (especially when you have the insta-rate thingy) is more a wave of spontaneous thought, than actually a well thought-out review stating why you like or dislike the album. The problem is that even if a rating is well thought-out, you can't really know. So I think that deleting the rating system could help a lot with evening reviews out (When you think about, how many gave a 5 or the other way around, a 1 star rating to something like "Dark Side Of The Moon" or "Close To The Edge", just because they're very much a classic progressive rock record.). If someone would have to review, he might weigh his thought differently and review differently, and rate differently, less from the gut, more from the mind (total cliche I know I know)
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Kilgannon ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 06 2011 Location: Cider Country! Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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If you turned PA into a review only site, you could end up turning those annoying 'manipulators' to copying and pasting a review from somewhere else in order to get their 1-star/5-star counted here, thus having much more weighting and a much increased effect on the average.
Edited by Kilgannon - March 21 2011 at 03:47 |
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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Until such time as there is an alternative way to allow non English speakers to contribute to the site, I think the 'rating only' option is here to stay. Given the negligible impact that any wholesale manipulation attempts have on a particular album (as explained in Dean's separate thread and here) it seems a bearable nuisance - and let's not forget it's the admins who have to do all the work cleansing the site of such skullduggery
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someone_else ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24638 |
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![]() Concerning the ratings, I think that the quick rating option should be abandoned, for two reasons:
1. Ratings without reviews are stimulated this way.
2. If I was logged in in the right login zone, I would have rated albums I have never heard by an accidental mouse click. If this option is to remain, than a 'delete quick rating option' should be included also. Edited by someone_else - March 21 2011 at 04:10 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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^ Iain meant "non English speakers" as in those poeple who cannot speak or write in English at all, not those who can - i.e. not peple with English as a second, third or fourth language.
Edited by Dean - March 21 2011 at 04:28 |
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someone_else ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24638 |
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^Sorry, I did not understand this...
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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^ erm...glad we got that cleared up
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Snow Dog ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
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^It's ok, some people just want to be offended.
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AtomicCrimsonRush ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
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The ratings only system is something that never troubled me till recently, it just seems of recent times people are clicking on the stars and moving on to their next album, and it doesnt really prove anything at all. in fact i dont even take notice of it. The reviews are what makes the site tick. We read the reviews and make up our mind about an album whether we will owill not like it.
a case in point, I did this for XXV last night by Pallas, I read all the reviews and it sounded wonderful. there wer emany 2 or 3 star ratings but it still drew me in because the content of the reviews made it apeal to me, the type of music I actually like. So even the 2 star ratings were enough for me to have an interest in the album. But this lead me to The Sentinel, a classic Pallas album that i had been avoiding. it took me an hour to plough thru all the reviews. Once again some 2 stars but a stack of 4 stars so I downloaded it and yes, it was worthwhile!
The site is awesome for finding about unknown albums.
One more, there were no reviews a year or so ago for the 'new' Devin Townsend so i had to take note of the ratings. It was all over the place so I waited til reviews came in. As soon as they did the reviewers informed me that the album would appeal as Devin was quieter and no death growls (one of my hates too, Ivan!).
On that note I can put up with death growls if they are an enhancement to the music. Haken's Aquarius, James Labries new solo SI, and Still Life by Opeth. However a whole album of them - no review will convince me to listen to that (aka Death).
After all is said and done the reviews with a rating attached are the lifeblood of the site - ratings only are nothing more than a nuisance - what do they achieve? Just a quick fix for lazy people who cant be bothered reviewing. Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - March 21 2011 at 17:13 |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Ratings-only enables the 6 billion people in the world who cannot write in English to participate in this site. I thought that was obvious and didn't need saying. |
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Epignosis ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32553 |
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Although the lack of a computer, modem, and Internet access might be a problem for roughly 5.5 billion of them. ![]() |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Oh, if only that problem were limted to 250 million English speakers...
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