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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 13100 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 22:42
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

VPs don't have any power, I thought people knew that.   Pence may have some influence, he may be given certain responsibilities, but the Veep is the most emasculated Federal position there is. 

David, I would like you to meet Dick Cheney. Dick used to work as a puppet master in the Bush White House.
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Points: 65330 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 22:47
Yeah micky introduced us earlier.  But Pence is not Cheney and Trump is not Bush.  Our VP elect strikes me as more of a puppet than a master.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 22:59
Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I agree that democracy in the USA is on its way out. In fact it's the VERY SAME THING as happened only this very year in both Turkey and Poland. Other European countries are heading in the same direction: France and Germany, to name two with the rising of their national-socialist parties and the corresponding voter support.


I don't mean to sound old fashion, but America is pretty much unique.  It did start slowly but no other country is built up so completely of non-native peoples.  It's a land of immigrants, who sadly partially displaced a population some are even saying displaced another native population, although I doubt that.  So, I don't believe your idea that democracy is on its way out.  The people here are way too independent.  I'm a moderate but "liberals" with their PC ways has been the most fascist thing America has ever seen.


I sincerely hope you're right, and quite possibly you are, but at the same time I think that this is a worryingly complacent opinion that afterwards often leads to the question of "How on earth could this have happened?'", while the democratic rights are being abolished.

The USA is built up of non-native peoples, as you say, but at this time I see very little evidence of them getting along. Just the opposite, in fact.

Germany and France are also now flooded with non-natives, and the strain is causing the seams to split. Seriously, it's a sign of the times. The industrialised nations USA/Europe are becoming a gigantic pressure cooker with no release valve.


Edited by npjnpj - November 10 2016 at 23:03
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 23:26
Oh, and another thing: In the past decades I've never been particularly interested in the American voting system, in fact only Donald Trump made me pay more attention. Now I'm pretty much astounded.

If I see it correcly, your system has presented you with candidates that nobody wants, and the winner of the two is the one with the least votes. Seriously? What is wrong with you people?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 23:32
LOL this just gets better and better.
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Points: 65330 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 23:32
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

The USA is built up of non-native peoples, as you say, but at this time I see very little evidence of them getting along. Just the opposite, in fact.

Germany and France are also now flooded with non-natives, and the strain is causing the seams to split. Seriously, it's a sign of the times. The industrialised nations USA/Europe are becoming a gigantic pressure cooker with no release valve.

Not quite; the "non-natives" of the US, which is everyone, get along extraordinarily well.   How about some stereotypes, shall we?: Hispanics work hard and stay out of trouble, Asians are well-educated and industrious, African Americans are talented and innovative, and white people... well okay we're largely a bunch of bumbling fops but that's how it goes.   Point is, we can, in the words of Rodney King, all get along, and do every day.   The industrial nations of Europe may be a pressure cooker, but the US has had a whole lot of practice getting past, granted with a lot of political push and some bloodshed, our ethnic issues.   We don't have a choice.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 23:49
So what was all that I'm gonna build a wall crap all about then? 
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Points: 65330 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 00:04
^ Don't misunderstand, there surely are a lot of people who love when he says that and would in fact like to see a wall (why they don't see the utter impracticality of that is beyond me but that's another matter).   But it has very little to do with 'getting along'.   It has to do with a whole bunch of people, the Ted Nugent Contingent as I will unfairly call them, genuinely thinking that rapists and murderers and job-takers, or worse ~ e.g. motivated hard-working people with the best of intentions ~ are overtaking and taking over the America they know.   That causes stress and fear.   But on a personal and professional level, Americans mix and match and work and live together better than any other immigrant nation of such size and diversity, in my opinion.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 00:12
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 00:19
We live in an ever complicated world, spinning out of control. At least, the Cold war provided with a 'certain' stability in that you knew who your enemy was and its was an ideological war , not a religious-tinted one. The shift going on everywhere are tectonic, in my humble opinion and they might just blow us all up. Think about it : Saudi Arabia, Isis, Trump, Netanyahu, Assad, El-Sisi and Putin. Throw in North Korea or the horror in Venezuela, EU falling apart, Merkel , Hollande Juncker. Too many hardasses in my opinion. The US just got their boy in the ring. 

I fear tomorrow , I 'll be crying ! Epitath comes to mind . King Crimson, indeed. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 00:21
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Don't misunderstand, there surely are a lot of people who love when he says that and would in fact like to see a wall (why they don't see the utter impracticality of that is beyond me but that's another matter).   But it has very little to do with 'getting along'.   It has to do with a whole bunch of people, the Ted Nugent Contingent as I will unfairly call them, genuinely thinking that rapists and murderers and job-takers, or worse ~ e.g. motivated hard-working people with the best of intentions ~ are overtaking and taking over the America they know.   That causes stress and fear.   But on a personal and professional level, Americans mix and match and work and live together better than any other immigrant nation of such size and diversity, in my opinion.

And that is true the whole world over. But you don't get to pick and choose just the good bits. A lot of people loved that crap because they agreed with the ideas and reasoning behind it, whether it was practical or not, without seeing themselves as "the Ted Nugget Contingent" - I'f Trump had said I'd gonna send all muslims to the moon people would have lapped it up just the same because they agree with the idea. Trump voters are current putting as much distance between themselves and that crass racist and anti-LBGT bollocks but they don't get to do that, if they stand on a platform alongside a racist and gay-bashers then they're gonna get tainted whether they like it or not.
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Points: 65330 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 00:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Don't misunderstand, there surely are a lot of people who love when he says that and would in fact like to see a wall (why they don't see the utter impracticality of that is beyond me but that's another matter).   But it has very little to do with 'getting along'.   It has to do with a whole bunch of people, the Ted Nugent Contingent as I will unfairly call them, genuinely thinking that rapists and murderers and job-takers, or worse ~ e.g. motivated hard-working people with the best of intentions ~ are overtaking and taking over the America they know.   That causes stress and fear.   But on a personal and professional level, Americans mix and match and work and live together better than any other immigrant nation of such size and diversity, in my opinion.
And that is true the whole world over. But you don't get to pick and choose just the good bits. A lot of people loved that crap because they agreed with the ideas and reasoning behind it, whether it was practical or not, without seeing themselves as "the Ted Nugget Contingent" - I'f Trump had said I'd gonna send all muslims to the moon people would have lapped it up just the same because they agree with the idea. Trump voters are current putting as much distance between themselves and that crass racist and anti-LBGT bollocks but they don't get to do that, if they stand on a platform alongside a racist and gay-bashers then they're gonna get tainted whether they like it or not.

You're absolutely right.
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Points: 6673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 00:27
Ted Nugent , now that is a scary thought! His mind must be racing (wordplay) because he is no racist, right? Doesn't even like animals! 
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Points: 20314 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 02:05
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

So what was all that I'm gonna build a wall crap all about then? 


Roger Waters thought aout that firstTongue ... look how long THAT lasted LOL

Donald Duck Trump can shout as loud as he wants, if he wants one, he's going to have to pay for it... internationally, it's impossible to have abother country to pay for something yoyu're building on your own grounds (even if it's  3ft from the border).



OK, I'm outa here
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 02:24
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

So what was all that I'm gonna build a wall crap all about then? 


Roger Waters thought aout that firstTongue ... look how long THAT lasted LOL

Donald Duck Trump can shout as loud as he wants, if he wants one, he's going to have to pay for it... internationally, it's impossible to have abother country to pay for something yoyu're building on your own grounds (even if it's  3ft from the border).



OK, I'm outa here
He never said how he was going to get them to pay for it. At some time over the next four years the Mexican government may want to build it at their expense to keep out all those pesky Americans who are fleeing from his lunacy...
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Points: 2720 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 03:03
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 04:13

Pence In Power?

Yes, if Trump delegates the power to him in the same way George W. delegated power to Cheney. I believe he will, so let's get ready for boots on the ground in Iraq, reviving the fortunes of Blackwater, and trillions more in the national debt. That will show ISIS and the rest of the world who's boss. 
 
On a lighter note, I checked out the anti Trump protest in NYC with my granddaughter, who calls the movement "Occupy Trump." They are passionate but will be no more effective than the actual "Occupy Wall Street" movement. But it's still fun to see a President Elect being protested before he's even sworn into office. A first, as far as I know, in American history. It could be worse. When Abraham Lincoln was elected, the entire south succeeded. 
 
Ermm Hmm. Can we have a separate country that comprises just the east and west coasts of the US?

 

 
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Points: 34055 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 05:15
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Pence In Power?

Yes, if Trump delegates the power to him in the same way George W. delegated power to Cheney. I believe he will, so let's get ready for boots on the ground in Iraq, reviving the fortunes of Blackwater, and trillions more in the national debt. That will show ISIS and the rest of the world who's boss. 
 
On a lighter note, I checked out the anti Trump protest in NYC with my granddaughter, who calls the movement "Occupy Trump." They are passionate but will be no more effective than the actual "Occupy Wall Street" movement. But it's still fun to see a President Elect being protested before he's even sworn into office. A first, as far as I know, in American history. It could be worse. When Abraham Lincoln was elected, the entire south succeeded. 
 
Ermm Hmm. Can we have a separate country that comprises just the east and west coasts of the US?

 

 
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Points: 20314 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 05:30
You know, from a outsider's PoV, is it that really that amazing that a country that has already elected a peanut king, a third-rate actor, a young giggolo too close to mafia circles, a near draft-escapee (well he went to some safe regiment) and more that I forget as I write, that this country now elects this rich reality-show bozo clown??

Originally posted by SteveG<strong> SteveG wrote:
Ermm Hmm. Can we have a separate country that comprises just the east and west coasts of the US?

Oddly enough; it's rather strange that Illinois (normally a republican state) voted Democrat this time around
Another weid thing is that I still have to see a map with the results of Minnesote, Michigan and New Hampshire's red or blue colours (Arizona popped up red with 36h late)


What's really difficult to understand with proportional democracies of Europe (and Canada), is that Clinton actually had more than 50% of the people's vote and yet she loses, because of strange twist (rigging? Tongue to Trump Wink)... Those "big electors" is rather scandalous in European eyes , because there is no way that all votes from a state should go to only one party.


There is something similar in the UK, where the "winner" takes all, disrespectful of the proportionality of the votes. As France's system of only two presidential candidates, it is relatively different, since they vote in two steps, retaining only the top two candidates after the first round of vote.





Edited by Sean Trane - November 11 2016 at 05:52
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2016 at 06:02
KKK to hold Trump victory rally in NC in December

KKK endorsement of Trump


Oh lord, that man keeps some bad company. Can't the secret service take out the KKK. Surely they can be classified as a terrorist group, or at least potentially so, and with that in mind surely they can drone striked....

Edited by Blacksword - November 11 2016 at 06:04
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