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Snicolette ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 6048 |
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Yes, a bit of a surprise, although we knew he was in ailing health. Not a big fan in his time, especially, but jeeze, at least something resembling "normal."
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Snicolette ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 6048 |
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Yes, plus there is always the odd feeling of "not counting," because of the hour differences. And thank you for the links to supplemental reading. Always appreciated.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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I have very conflicted feelings about Bush 'classic' as I (and other haha) wags have termed him. I have my personal emotional if you will thoughts of him, which tend to be very positive, and a more detached intellectual view of him if you will, which is not so positive.
He was the last of the undivisive Presidents we have had, where even those who opposed him did so with respect. Therein is the rub. In fact I read a great article yesterday on Politico which reminded me why I love that site, and the other 'non-mainstream' political sites. While everyone is tripping over themselves lionizing him, and comparing him and that age to our current Toddler in Chief and the era that we are in now, lamenting the death of the moderate Republican Party. This article dared to go where none are, at the moment, and openly wondering if his place and blame for today is being swept under the rug of 'speak only good of the dead'. He is in large part to blame FOR all of this. In fact it was Bush who started that ball rolling, the politics of personal destruction that became page 1 of the Republican Party playbook which poisoned our politics and gave birth to the hyperpartisanship of today I'll always remember this exchange.. the genteel and noble, as he is being remembered today, Bush was not above getting dirty and nasty. and worse... the weaponing of this countries dark side.. racial poltics and fear and hate... which more than anything. Due to just how effective it was.. has brought us to where we are now... a complete state of disfunction, and division now that it has finally boomeraged upon that party. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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Bush the First was a gentleman. The only problem that I have with him is that he sired Bush the Second.
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omphaloskepsis ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6757 |
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I have a problem with any president who starts a War. ![]() ![]() https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWelpY0O0jc&pbjreload
Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 03 2018 at 12:04 |
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Snicolette ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 6048 |
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As indeed a knowledge of history is important in the understanding of the Complete President, is it not? Don't even get me started on the deification of Reagan. Speak of the dead as they acted in life, I always say. I think that perhaps there was a feeling that there was at least a modicum of belief in doing the "right," thing underneath Bush Classic (love that, btw). Something entirely lacking these days, at least in my viewpoint. And thank you again for the links, as always.
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10676 |
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Bush Sr didn't start a war, Iraq invaded Kuwait and a coalition of countries responded. Edited by Easy Money - December 03 2018 at 11:28 |
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Fischman ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 21 2018 Location: Colorado, USA Status: Offline Points: 1636 |
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Nothing dirty or underhanded in that statement. We all cam to learn the low character of Clinton. That statement was straight up true. Now Clinton did manage to be a fairly effective Chief Executive in spite of this, but his character was definitely bottom of the barrel. And even if it was an unfair statement, Bush didn't start this either. Go back to the TV commercials against Reagan with the mushroom cloud implying this hawk would bring nuclear annihilation to us all (in reality he helped usher in just the opposite.. and end to the Cold War). But it goes back even further than that... all the way to the beginning of our nation. Read about the squabbles, badmouthing... and even duels (you know, real duels with guns) between some of our founding fathers.... even before there were Republicans and Democrats. In reality, Bush, while being praised for being a gentlemen, was too nice. When Congress told him that if he gave them a new Luxury Tax, they'd cut spending, he actually believed them. He gave them the new tax, but Congress failed to keep their end of the bargain. The new tax helped stifle economic activity, which plunged the nation into recession and then the Democrats were able to use that recession (borne of the tax they wanted), along with Bush's reversal of his "no new taxes" pledge, to unseat him. This "gentleman" was duped by one of the most underhanded, and harmful, political maneuverings in our nation's history. Ironically, Clinton then repealed that tax and got credit for the associated economic recovery. More ironically, the one thing the left praises Bush for is the one thing that led to his political undoing. Check that, there's nothing ironic about it... it is exactly as the left deftly planned and executed. Politically brilliant... Machiavellian to the max. And if Willie Horton had been white, they would have used the same strategy... the topic was who would be tough on crime and the point was that dangerous criminals were being released. Willie Horton just happened to be the most egregious example of what happens when dangerous felons are released. He was chosen because of the horrific nature of the crime and he was incarcerated... and released... in Massachusetts under the policy of the Dukakis state administration. Had Willie Horton been white and committed grand theft, attempted murder, and multiple rape, he still would have made a fine example and the exact same point would have been made. Just because he's black doesn't mean using him as an example was the weaponization of race.
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65549 |
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I never thought I'd have fond memories of GHW Bush but that's what a Trump presidency does. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Snicolette ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 02 2018 Location: OR Status: Offline Points: 6048 |
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"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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^^^ Many people are thinking that, in the US and beyond. It feels like we're in a different reality now.
The Trump presidency is indicative of a world in a 'post science' age; a bizarre return to superstition, and a parochial tribalism we had thought had been laid to rest. I blame liberals. No...I actually DO blame liberals. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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npjnpj ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
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The Trump presidency, the rise of nationalism (see Poland, Hungary, Germany, and many more), political correctness in its extremes, social justice warriors, social unrest, political unrest, Brexit: I see all these as an indirect result of globalization, and Trump is just one of many symptoms. I’ve never been a friend of it, but I acknowledge that it’s something that we have to live with now. It could have been a great thing, but it’s been mishandled and misused with devastating results. Frustrated populations are trying to wind globalization back (see Brexit and the list above in general), especially the industrial nations whose populations have been the hardest hit, but it’s headed towards a disaster. In the end, it’s just a desperate attempt to close Pandora’s Box after someone has thrown the lid away. I don’t even have the slightest idea of where anyone could even start to solve this. |
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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NutterAlert ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 07 2005 Location: In transition Status: Offline Points: 2808 |
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'Every step appears to be
The unavoidable consequence of the preceding one, And in the end there beckons more and more clearly Total annihilation' |
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Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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^ You must be looking for the Apocalyptic prog.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I agree. I'm not convinced there is a solution, without major conflict. The US and Europe are in a potentialy 'pre-civil war state' IMO. Globalisation is here to stay, and the fight will be over whether the far right or the far left have control over the machine. Niether option looks good to me. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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progaardvark ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 52477 |
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This I totally agree with you. I've seen enough political pamphlets from the 19th century to know they were just as brutal back then as they are now. I think it only seems more prevalent today because we are all "hooked" up with social media and the never-ending soundbites of news media, whereas back then (pre-radio and pre-TV), the only source of media was print and word-of-mouth.
Now this I don't agree with. The 1990-1991 recession started before any new taxes were passed and the recovery period started during Bush's last year as president in 1992 after these taxes were already in play, though that recovery was sluggish. The recession had been attributed to a restrictive monetary policy the Fed Reserve had enacted and the economy was showing weakening going back to 1989. Those tax increases were much more than a "luxury tax." If you are referring to the excise tax, that was a 30% tax on the amount of price over $30,000 for autos, $100,000 for boats, $250,000 for airplanes, and $10,000 for furs. An average new car in 1990 cost about $10,000. But there were a lot more taxes in that bill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1990 Clinton didn't repeal that bill. It got replaced by another bill in 1993 during his first year as president that raised taxes even more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1993 So then you have to ask yourself, what did cause that economic boom in the 1990s? Higher taxes? Maybe fudging around tax rates a few percentage points one way or another doesn't necessarily have the impact you think it does. With the "huge" drop in corporate taxes recently enacted, why is there any unemployment at all? Why is GM planning on cutting 14,000 jobs? Why does the debt grow even faster now than it did two years ago? Makes one wonder, doesn't it? As to Clinton using Bush's "read my lips" to good effect, name a politician that wouldn't have used it. Pat Buchanan used it extensively in the Republican primary during that election, but most people thought he was too nutty to be president (and hopefully most still do). It also didn't help that Ross Perot ran that year too and probably siphoned off some of the libertarian votes, though many argue it is debatable that Perot had any effect on the outcome.
Edited by progaardvark - December 04 2018 at 07:17 |
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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IVNORD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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Globalization is a natural process of economic interaction and indirect economic integration. As such it wouldn't cause the problems you've mentioned. The culprit here are politicians who hijacked it and turned it into a political process. This is the root of the problem.
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IVNORD ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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The seeds of that recession were sown during the Reagan's presidency. Bush just had to deal with it. The Fed monetary policy did not cause it but made it more painful.
The economy was recovering already in 1992. But what made it really booming in the 90s was the manipulation of interest rates by Greenspan with Bill Clinton allegedly playing a pivotal role in that game. The result of that was the dotcom bust and the financial engineering the Fed forced to conduct ever since.
Tax cuts do not eliminate the boom-bust cycle. It's possible we're going into the bust period. And of course, tax cuts produce budget deficits and consequently debt growth
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Fischman ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 21 2018 Location: Colorado, USA Status: Offline Points: 1636 |
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Yes, the recession had started, which is why that was exactly
the wrong time to implement an economically stifling tax. The direct effects are well documented. The “rich” simply cut back on buying luxury
goods. The effect was felt across the
economic spectrum, but most painfully in the yacht building industry. The problem was that the reduction in
consumption of luxury goods actually led to a net loss in tax revenue. Worse yet was the loss of jobs… blue collar
and administrative jobs… as a result, these sectors not only had less employment,
they also now required unemployment, welfare, and they couldn’t contribute to
the economy. This then permeated
throughout the economy and the death spiral began. Yes, an economic downturn was already in the
works, but this exacerbated it greatly and submarined any chance of recovering
before it got deep. Don’t get me wrong here; I’m not some rabid anti-tax
fanatic, and I reserve judgment on the recent tax cuts. The US has some of the highest corporate tax
rates in the world, so the corporate tax cut may or may not bear out to be a
bad thing, but the reduction in the top level income tax was almost certainly
uncalled for. Of course I expected Clinton to harp on “Read My Lips.” My point was that the whole thing was set up
brilliantly. Indeed Perot hurt as
well. Clinton won (both times) with far
less than a majority and there’s no doubt the businessman siphoned off more votes
from the Republican side than he did the Democratic side. |
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