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HackettFan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:25
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by zappaholic zappaholic wrote:


THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LIBERAL WITH A JOB.

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:30
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

And we voted Trump, because the American working class is tired of. People. Like. You.  We voted in our best interests.  To stop the working class being thrown under the SJW bus.

lol, you consarned kids and your empathy towards oppressed minorities!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:36
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:


My paranoia leads me to wonder whether some plan to keep the masses as uneducated as possible is backfiring badly in our western democracies at the moment.


You're right for a wrong reason. It's no plan, it's how the system works. No one cares to educate the masses because there's no need, a dumbass who doesn't understand anything should not be taught philosophy forcefully, and those who strive to succeed will do it on their own. Your problem though is that you confuse education with propaganda.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:40
I agree that democracy in the USA is on its way out. In fact it's the VERY SAME THING as happened only this very year in both Turkey and Poland. Other European countries are heading in the same direction: France and Germany, to name two with the rising of their national-socialist parties and the corresponding voter support.

Turkey and Poland are, in all but name, now parlamentary fascist dictatorships, and if Trump even sticks to a fraction of his announcements, so will the US be in just a very short time.

And you know what? The people are going to love it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:42
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by zappaholic zappaholic wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

And we voted Trump, because the American working class is tired of. People. Like. You.  We voted in our best interests.  To stop the working class being thrown under the SJW bus.
Why do you assume "social justice warriors" (whoever this may be) are not themselves working class? Do you view it as okay to insult elites (whoever they may be)?


THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LIBERAL WITH A JOB.

Amusing, sort of...well not really. Anyway, easily disproven. I collect a paycheck.


It seems to be an article of faith among many Conservative types.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:43
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I agree that democracy in the USA is on its way out. In fact it's the VERY SAME THING as happened only this very year in both Turkey and Poland. Other European countries are heading in the same direction: France and Germany, to name two with the rising of their national-socialist parties and the corresponding voter support.

Turkey and Poland are, in all but name, now parlamentary fascist dictatorships, and if Trump even sticks to a fraction of his announcements, so will the US be in just a very short time.

And you know what? The people are going to love it.


OR ELSE.


"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:45
@ IVNORD: Not quite, although I see your point. I mean that a lack of education decreases the amount of propaganda necessary.
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IVNORD View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:54
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

@ IVNORD: Not quite, although I see your point. I mean that a lack of education decreases the amount of propaganda necessary.
Of course it does. It's much easier to govern the dumb and uneducated. You just tell them a few truisms and they're in. Try to convince a liberal with a college degree that he doesn't understand elementary things - he's full of propaganda fed to him by his college professors Smile


Edited by IVNORD - November 10 2016 at 08:10
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 07:55
Extremism breeds Extremism.

I'm going full Stalinist from now on
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:01
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

God help America.


I believe this....apparently the day when Reagan won, God's help has been needed ever since to survive these elections and keep this country afloat.
LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:21
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 

Voted in Trump as a Protest?

Anyone who voted for Trump as a protest against the establishment should have their head's examined. The Brits who voted leave for Brexit had an idea or were given an idea, rightly or wrongly, of what they were voting for. This idea that voting in anarchy for the sake of principle is the height of stupidity. For these that did, may you get the next four years that you truly deserve.

 

As a sidenote, it seems that many of the eight million registered Dems that failed to vote in this year's election are staging anti-Trump protests from Seattle to New York City. For those that did vote, you have my support. For those that didn't, may you fare as well as the Trump "protest voters" stated above.


If this statistic is true Steve then WOW, shame on those that did not vote, although why did the Dems not show up is another question? All the analysis will start coming out on what happened both good and bad, that is what I have lots of interest in because you are looking at facts and not some media hyped poll that for the most part means absolutely nothing. 
And seems the facts are that pretty much the majority of polls got it horribly wrong LOL. Which is funny to me that sooooo many put all their eggs into these polls all the time and come out smelling like rotten eggs in the end. Most of these political polls are a horrible measurement, I heard an interview withAllan Lichtman on NPR who has predicted 9 elections in a row using his method, quite interesting to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:36
Originally posted by IVNORD IVNORD wrote:

Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

@ IVNORD: Not quite, although I see your point. I mean that a lack of education decreases the amount of propaganda necessary.
Of course it does. It's much easier to govern the dumb and uneducated. You just tell them a few truisms and they're in. Try to convince a liberal with a college degree that he doesn't understand elementary things - he's full of propaganda fed to him by his college professors Smile
The only commonality between propaganda and education is that there are people who are receiving information
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:44
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

To Lazland, who said this is not a loss for democracy: 

It IS. Yes, first, it is a result of democracy (kind of really, seeing how the person who won the popular vote is not president). But second, once Trump and his new congress and supreme court are in place, it may very likely be a loss for democracy in the future. They will do all they can to suppress voting for minorities, gerrymander a little more, and make sure elections are all but free. 

So yes, it IS a defeat for democracy, just not right now. Give it a couple years. 

This somewhat gets to the point but the larger problem and the factor binding events like Brexit and the US elections is also a gradual tearing down of the aristocratic element of democracy and it being replaced by full on populism.  Here in India, we have had states governed by complete jokers; check that, right now and for many of the past several years as well, our most populous state has been governed by jokers or dacoits or call them what you will. Hasn't happened at the Central Government level or what you would call Federal in US.  

The need for an elite or aristocratic class was unquestioningly accepted in better times under the not entirely misplaced belief that they would contribute vital expertise needed to run government even if they did not enjoy popular appeal.  But with prolonged stagnation, it seems as if the masses now distrust the elites and favour anti-intellectualism.  The problem then is if we are really going to have governments run by anti-intellectuals we also need to change the governance structure to make it much more participative. The structure as it exists vests too much power in an individual to make decisions because it was never conceived that people with no administrative experience would rise to the most powerful position in the nation (and by implication, the world, in the American context).  The worst a corrupt and illiterate Indian chief minister can do is bankrupt an already impoverished state via handouts (which is bad but bear with me).  The worst an irresponsible US President can do is sign up for World War 3.  I am not (yet) saying Trump will be that guy since hope springs eternal but we do need a realignment of the system lest he is in turn succeeded by a hardcore populist dictator with unbridled authority as the representative of the people.  I.e the real Hitler reincarnate we had discussed before. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 08:54
What of the movement that put Trump in office? Is it all bad? Would Clinton have led us into WW3? Just as we had no idea Trump would win, we have no idea what his presidency will mean in the long run. America is not just it's president. Real people put him in office. The one thing I personally hope is that we address the environmental problems which we face. It is time to stop demonizing and repair what we have in common as human beings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 09:14
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What of the movement that put Trump in office? Is it all bad? Would Clinton have led us into WW3? Just as we had no idea Trump would win, we have no idea what his presidency will mean in the long run. America is not just it's president. Real people put him in office. The one thing I personally hope is that we address the environmental problems which we face. It is time to stop demonizing and repair what we have in common as human beings.

Just her on campaign sabre rattling against Russia was scary.  I don't know that Trump will actually be as friendly with Russia as he says he will be but with Clinton, a prolonged confrontation on the battleground of Syria would have been almost assured.  Which brings me to the two party system of USA which deprived voters of choice, narrowing it down to the ultimate insider v/s the ultimate outsider.  

Whilst explaining the US voting system to us Indians, a newspaper projected how handsomely Modi would have won under the US system and it turns out it would have been a landslide.  As it was, his party only just managed to attain a simple majority of its own and then only because many of their opponents were splintered and had abandoned coalitions which would have captured more of the vote share and thus defeated the BJP in a first past the post system.  We have cursed the coalition system left, right and center for its inefficiency but I at least have done a double take now.  You know what's much worse?  Giving absolute power to a politician.  I don't mind inefficient as long as it represents a larger section of a nation's electorate.  Divisive mandates are messy.  As mentioned earlier, I have relatives living in your country (and they all pay taxes, don't worry) and it is in my and their interest that everything works out well and I hope that that will indeed be the case.


Edited by rogerthat - November 10 2016 at 09:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 09:18
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What of the movement that put Trump in office? Is it all bad? Would Clinton have led us into WW3? Just as we had no idea Trump would win, we have no idea what his presidency will mean in the long run. America is not just it's president. Real people put him in office. The one thing I personally hope is that we address the environmental problems which we face. It is time to stop demonizing and repair what we have in common as human beings.

Clap

I have not looked at the reasons why, but I-732 failed here in our state, the nation's first state ballot measure on a carbon tax...speaking of the environment. I can only assume right now nobody wants more taxes...Dunno the specific reasons.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 09:21
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

What of the movement that put Trump in office? Is it all bad? Would Clinton have led us into WW3? Just as we had no idea Trump would win, we have no idea what his presidency will mean in the long run. America is not just it's president. Real people put him in office. The one thing I personally hope is that we address the environmental problems which we face. It is time to stop demonizing and repair what we have in common as human beings.
I'd be FAR less worried if Trump didn't also control both houses of congress and soon the Supreme Court. He has all branches at his service. Seeing how Republicans kept their seats thanks to him, I'm sure Ryan and acolytes will gladly obey like lackeys. 

Also, Giuliani in charge of anything more powerful than a security post in northern Alaska sets all kinds of paranoia in me... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 09:38
Giuliani, Alaska is too pristine for him, I would rather see him sitting on a bus bench in St. Petersburg, Florida.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 10:23
While we're on the environment, he picked a climate skeptic to lead the EPA transition.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2016 at 10:32
This is alarming and hopefully not happening.
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