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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 04:24
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 

What happens to us Democrats now?

Whenever democracy stumbles and falls, fringe elements like fascism and socialism start filling in  the void. For lack of a better term, I'll call Trump's party "Pseudo Fascists." With the implosion of the Democratic Party, Bernie, hopefully will run again in 2020 (he'll be the same age as Trump) and oust the establishment Democrats much the same way as Trump has done to the establishment Republicans. Let's call his party "Socialist Democrats" for now. The name may change to something like "Ultra Progressive", but what's in a name? 

Smaller less effective forms of the old Repubs and Dems will make up a third and forth party. So don't jump off that ledge just yet. It's just starting to get fun.



He's already older than Trump, sadly will not be an option in 2020. 
I do hope Elizabeth Warren runs however, and in general I pray the one good thing from this night is just what you say: The Democratic Party has its own tea party and reforms itself. 
Democratic purge. Purge the DNC and get people who actually hold Democratic ideals into Congress and power. 

The Clinton era has come to an end and good riddance. The damage they've done to the Democratic Party has reached its apex. 
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 04:30
^You're correct my friend. I thought Bernie was born in 1945, but on checking, it's 1941. But I still think he's got the hutzpah for one term! Smile 

Edited by SteveG - November 09 2016 at 04:33
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 04:48
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^You're correct my friend. I thought Bernie was born in 1945, but on checking, it's 1941. But I still think he's got the hutzpah for one term! Smile 

Ha that I don't doubt!

But seriously I hate to be so cynical, maybe its a coping mechanism, but that's the one silver lining to this. 
Dump the Clinton influence and start a new. The Sanders/Warren faction no longer held back. And it may be advantageous long run. We can be on the offensive, and when the economy tanks we can capitalize. Maybe win Congress in 2018 and the WH in 2020
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Points: 2822 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 05:04
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 05:30
Hang on... just because Clinton failed to beat Trump it does not follow that Sanders was in any way electable. Sure he would have secured the vote of his supporters (who may or may not have buggered up this election by subsequently voting for neither Trump nor Clinton but frankly a third party scenario only works when that 3rd party candidate would have polled in second place in individual states, which never happened, nor will it ever), but it does not mean he would have won in any of the states that mattered in this election.
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Points: 66380 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 05:34
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 06:09
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Hang on... just because Clinton failed to beat Trump it does not follow that Sanders was in any way electable. Sure he would have secured the vote of his supporters (who may or may not have buggered up this election by subsequently voting for neither Trump nor Clinton but frankly a third party scenario only works when that 3rd party candidate would have polled in second place in individual states, which never happened, nor will it ever), but it does not mean he would have won in any of the states that mattered in this election.
We're talking Election 2020, Dean. Not what could not have been, but what is possible in the future. If we learned one thing from Trump, and hopefully we have, is that anything in US politics is possible. Out with the  Democratic establishment in 2019 and in with Bernie or his ilk!
 
So, I say again, rejoice and be hopeful. Smile Remember this: Trump won on enthusiasm from his base. Bernie would have crushed him if he was in Clinton's place!


Edited by SteveG - November 09 2016 at 06:37
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Points: 1834 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 06:11
Brexit in England, the right-wing parties are getting stronger in Germany, and now Trump... I am a bit a worried, if you ask me. 2016 is not a good year for democracy... Confused
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Points: 20977 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 07:00
Turkeys voting for Thanksgiving, when your kids are sick from Fracking polluted water, you can't get health coverage, your sons and daughters are getting killed in foreign wars to support US arms industry, your cost of living goes up to support tax breaks for the wealthy, look in the bloody mirror America, you voted for them.
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Points: 1199 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 07:16
Had nightmare's last night of pro-Trump parades on my street and my best friend being deported
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 07:19
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Remember this: Trump won on enthusiasm from his base. Bernie would have crushed him if he was in Clinton's place!
As I said, that is not a certainty, believe it if you will (and I know you will) but it's just an excuse.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 07:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Remember this: Trump won on enthusiasm from his base. Bernie would have crushed him if he was in Clinton's place!
As I said, that is not a certainty, believe it if you will (and I know you will) but it's just an excuse.
I knew that Trump had a better than average shot at winning, when most others said otherwise, why doubt me now?

Edited by SteveG - November 09 2016 at 13:37
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 07:29
I feel so stupid for wanting Trump to win the Republican primaries because I thought he would be the easiest one to beat. 
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 08:31
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Remember this: Trump won on enthusiasm from his base. Bernie would have crushed him if he was in Clinton's place!


As I said, that is not a certainty, believe it if you will (and I know you will) but it's just an excuse.
I knew that Trump had a better than average shot a winning, when most others said other wise, why doubt me now?
I never liked Hillary's campaign message. It started out with her, like Dukakis who also lost, emphasizing her competence, visualizing the campaign as a job interview. Then it drifted to little more than I'm not that guy. Bernie, win or lose would have had a wave to ride. His message was so well defined, he could not have gotten into office without a mandate. Hillary should have learned more from Bernie's campaign beyond simply 'here's what we need to include in the platform. There's no purpose in getting into the office without a real mandate. Maybe just as well that she didn't squeak by and have impossible battles with a Republican congress. I stand to lose a bundle of money right now, though, with poor timing some investments that I''m cashing in and rolling over, presuming the market is about to tank. Aargh!
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 08:36
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

^ I think they have realized it, but are busy trying to look calm in public.  The GOP is about to go down in flames, but no one wants to be the one to point out that the emperor is in fact stark naked, with very bad hair.
 

The dumb Americans said different last night.
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 08:43
Of course there's reason to wonder about the future of the Democratic Party and whether it will go full-progressive or will be back to centrism. But what the hell is the future of the GOP? They have crushed their rivals but riding on a platform with the alt-right and all sorts of formerly-fringe factions of conservatism. Is true moderate conservatism dead? 
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 09:10
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I feel so stupid for wanting Trump to win the Republican primaries because I thought he would be the easiest one to beat. 



I guess it's true then to some extent that USA has had status quo elections for a long time.  Because the very fact that Trump was getting plenty of new voters for the Republican party during the Primaries should have been a warning.  
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 09:13
Originally posted by Formentera Lady Formentera Lady wrote:

Brexit in England, the right-wing parties are getting stronger in Germany, and now Trump... I am a bit a worried, if you ask me. 2016 is not a good year for democracy... Confused

More than a bit worrying.  Any extreme movement from the center threatens democracy. Guess the heavy progressive slant of the last few years produced an extreme reaction in turn.  
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 10:05
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Bernie, win or lose would have had a wave to ride. His message was so well defined, he could not have gotten into office without a mandate.
Right on, my brother.Thumbs Up
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2016 at 11:14
Originally posted by twseel twseel wrote:

world-wide misery?


ok you can't be serious about that

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Hang on... just because Clinton failed to beat Trump it does not follow that Sanders was in any way electable.


this is true

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

I do hope Elizabeth Warren runs however

She simply doesn't have the connections, charisma or drive to even win a DNC primary barring change.  Maybe Crazy Uncle Joe will run next election.

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

The Democratic Party has its own tea party and reforms itself. 
Democratic purge. Purge the DNC and get people who actually hold Democratic ideals into Congress and power. 


That's their best hope if they want to win another election anytime soon (though the Tea Party is a bad example as it was a neocon astroturf project from day 1), a large part of Trump victory is that average Americans are absolutely fed up with elite nepotism, pay to play, neoconservatism, neoliberalism etc.  I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton's connections to the pillaging of Iraq, Libya and Syria were her final undoing.


The broader point I haven't seen mentioned since last night is that the opposing party virtually always win the next election after 2 consecutive terms lol



Edited by Triceratopsoil - November 09 2016 at 11:23
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