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jude111 View Drop Down
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Burial's Untrue gets a lot of comparisons to Blade Runner. It's not so much the sound (you'd be hard-pressed to compare it to Vangelis), but what the music portrays. A lot of people hear urban dystopia in Burial's music, but I don't. I find his music projects a love for the urban environment, and his music, rather than a lot of dark early dubstep, is oddly comforting. Untrue conjures the city at 3am, but rather than a place of anxiety and fear, it's a place of mystery, a place you want to be. 

Burial has said in several interviews that he was influenced by 1990s drum and bass like the releases on the Metalheadz label. Many artists on Metalheadz, such as Dillinja and Goldie, sampled Vangelis tracks and used them in their drum and bass tracks. "Silver Blade" by Dillinja is a famous example. So there is a connection there.

Yeah, Goldie's big into sci-fi - he famously sampled The Terminator film. Goldie/Rufige Cru's music is wonderfully cinematic... In interviews, Burial talked about his love for the Alien movies, as well as Blade Runner. (By the way, Goldie's new album is due to come out sometime this year, and it's supposed to feature a track made in collaboration with Burial! Clap)


Edited by jude111 - May 23 2013 at 10:41
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 10:49
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:



Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 Daydreaming is very important. Even George Carlin felt that every individual, especially children should have a least 1 hour of solid daydreaming every day.

I gotta agree with him.

Yeah, I agree with this 100% too. Daydreaming is not always wasted time. I've read several interviews where artists have said that some great ideas have come to them when they were not working or not intentionally concentrating on anything:
Roger Waters has said that ideas for songs sometimes came to him when he was driving his car.
Brian Eno thought of some ideas for his albums when he was stuck in a hospital bed after an accident.
I'm sure there are many other examples too.



There is. Geoff Tate of Queensr˙che was sitting in an old abandoned church daydreaming when all the sudden a creepy man came and sat beside him telling him about all the horrific things he had done. Hence, the character of doctor X was born for Operation Mindcrime. Long live the dream!! Hey. Tate should has made a bonus track on that album called dream of the ryche. Lol
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Points: 140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 18:01
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:



Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 Daydreaming is very important. Even George Carlin felt that every individual, especially children should have a least 1 hour of solid daydreaming every day.

I gotta agree with him.

Yeah, I agree with this 100% too. Daydreaming is not always wasted time. I've read several interviews where artists have said that some great ideas have come to them when they were not working or not intentionally concentrating on anything:
Roger Waters has said that ideas for songs sometimes came to him when he was driving his car.
Brian Eno thought of some ideas for his albums when he was stuck in a hospital bed after an accident.
I'm sure there are many other examples too.



There is. Geoff Tate of Queensr˙che was sitting in an old abandoned church daydreaming when all the sudden a creepy man came and sat beside him telling him about all the horrific things he had done. Hence, the character of doctor X was born for Operation Mindcrime. Long live the dream!! Hey. Tate should has made a bonus track on that album called dream of the ryche. Lol


Wow is that for real?  I never knew that.  Sounds like the character for the priest more so than Dr X though..
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bonestorm View Drop Down
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Points: 140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 18:05
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I love sci-fi themes in prog!  "Watcher of the Skies" was the first to really grab me, and it seems all bands at least dabbled in it.  ELP, Pink Floyd and others famously wallowed in sci-fi themes!  

Any favorites, ye worthy forum fans?  

I love sci-fi in general especially the Blade Runner vision of a dystopian future

In can be a hard thing to get right. For me Eloy nailed the sci fi thing with Planets and Time To Turn

Hawkwind have to be mentioned of course. We had a record deck in the school common room and they seemed to be on constantly. Listening to them now brings back a weird nostalgia.

Not sure that there is as much sci fi themed albums like their used to be. Sci -fi was such a big thing in the seventies but now there is lot more fantasy based concepts which is different thing altogether imo. I would love a band to have a go at a big sci fi themed concept.




Richard this will seem a bit self serving since it's my music, but Hibernal's album sounds like what you describe - a sci fi themed concept album.  You can check it out from the link in my sig if interested.  Thumbs Up
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Points: 65760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 23 2013 at 18:16
< id="bpm-darkle"> < id="bpm-invert">
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Burial's Untrue gets a lot of comparisons to Blade Runner. It's not so much the sound (you'd be hard-pressed to compare it to Vangelis), but what the music portrays. A lot of people hear urban dystopia in Burial's music, but I don't. I find his music projects a love for the urban environment, and his music, rather than a lot of dark early dubstep, is oddly comforting. Untrue conjures the city at 3am, but rather than a place of anxiety and fear, it's a place of mystery, a place you want to be. (Kode9, who owns the Hyperdub label that Burial emerged from, also does sci-fi urban dystopia on his first two albums, Memories of the Future and Black Sun. But I find the spoken word/rapping of Spaceape to be annoying...)

Kuedo sounds a lot more like Vangelis than Burial does, at least to me.
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Points: 28029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2013 at 01:54
Originally posted by bonestorm bonestorm wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I love sci-fi themes in prog!  "Watcher of the Skies" was the first to really grab me, and it seems all bands at least dabbled in it.  ELP, Pink Floyd and others famously wallowed in sci-fi themes!  

Any favorites, ye worthy forum fans?  

I love sci-fi in general especially the Blade Runner vision of a dystopian future

In can be a hard thing to get right. For me Eloy nailed the sci fi thing with Planets and Time To Turn

Hawkwind have to be mentioned of course. We had a record deck in the school common room and they seemed to be on constantly. Listening to them now brings back a weird nostalgia.

Not sure that there is as much sci fi themed albums like their used to be. Sci -fi was such a big thing in the seventies but now there is lot more fantasy based concepts which is different thing altogether imo. I would love a band to have a go at a big sci fi themed concept.




Richard this will seem a bit self serving since it's my music, but Hibernal's album sounds like what you describe - a sci fi themed concept album.  You can check it out from the link in my sig if interested.  Thumbs Up

cheers for that. I'll have a listen when I have a bit more time
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 00:43
Originally posted by bonestorm bonestorm wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:



Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 Daydreaming is very important. Even George Carlin felt that every individual, especially children should have a least 1 hour of solid daydreaming every day.

I gotta agree with him.

Yeah, I agree with this 100% too. Daydreaming is not always wasted time. I've read several interviews where artists have said that some great ideas have come to them when they were not working or not intentionally concentrating on anything:
Roger Waters has said that ideas for songs sometimes came to him when he was driving his car.
Brian Eno thought of some ideas for his albums when he was stuck in a hospital bed after an accident.
I'm sure there are many other examples too.



There is. Geoff Tate of Queensr˙che was sitting in an old abandoned church daydreaming when all the sudden a creepy man came and sat beside him telling him about all the horrific things he had done. Hence, the character of doctor X was born for Operation Mindcrime. Long live the dream!! Hey. Tate should has made a bonus track on that album called dream of the ryche. Lol
Wow is that for real?  I never knew that.  Sounds like the character for the priest more so than Dr X though..


Very true man. It's in the bio of the sleeve note booklet in the special Ed. Of Operation Mindcrime. Buy it man. It's worth it.
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Points: 140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 03:20
Yeh might have to, thanks for the heads up!  One of my all time favourite albums for sure.
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 05:50
Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome Second Life Syndrome wrote:

How important are the philosophies and ideas in prog to you?  I find more and more that I often appreciate the lyrical message more than the music, at least at first.  The lyrical content often opens up the door for me to fall in love with the music!  One example: Riversea's "Out of an Ancient World".  This album is a masterpiece in my opinion, but the philosophy is what gripped me at first.  Truly, prog is music for thinking men!

I've been thinking about this concept for a while, and so I started a Facebook page called The Prog Mind.  I want it to be a community of prog lovers that appreciate the message just as much as the melody.  They place emphasis on the lyrics and on the music.  I feel that this will get us closer and closer to the true soul of prog: that undefinable aura that seems to embrace prog.  If you feel like it, join my community at https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind  If not, share your feelings about this topic!


I just don't buy this stubborn connection that musical complexity = depth. If you really feel that the ideas trump the chops, then listen to Bob Dylan, Tom Verlaine, Stan Ridgway, John Cale, Lloyd Cole, Ray Davies or ANY ARTIST THAT MOVES YOU. Is it really beyond the pale that relatively simple music could communicate beyond the humble parameters of it's own structural style?
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 05:58
Actually, a song like Everybody wants to rule the world is a lot more thoughtful and thought-provoking and also satisfying in terms of form, lyrically, than a lot of prog (imo).  I am sure Rush are more complex, musically, than Tears for Fears, but I find their lyrics generally quite banal compared to those of the latter on at least that song.  OK, sure one could cite Fish as a counter example but I can't readily think of a lot of prog rock artists who produce lyrics with as much conviction as he can.  I should say that lyrics are overall not very important in prog.  Attaching a lot of importance to lyrics and insisting on good lyrics is not compatible with a mindset that enjoys technical instrumental music a la Return to Forever or the Gentle Giant track Boys in the Band. 


Edited by rogerthat - May 25 2013 at 06:06
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Points: 887 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:19
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome Second Life Syndrome wrote:

How important are the philosophies and ideas in prog to you?  I find more and more that I often appreciate the lyrical message more than the music, at least at first.  The lyrical content often opens up the door for me to fall in love with the music!  One example: Riversea's "Out of an Ancient World".  This album is a masterpiece in my opinion, but the philosophy is what gripped me at first.  Truly, prog is music for thinking men!

I've been thinking about this concept for a while, and so I started a Facebook page called The Prog Mind.  I want it to be a community of prog lovers that appreciate the message just as much as the melody.  They place emphasis on the lyrics and on the music.  I feel that this will get us closer and closer to the true soul of prog: that undefinable aura that seems to embrace prog.  If you feel like it, join my community at https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind  If not, share your feelings about this topic!


I just don't buy this stubborn connection that musical complexity = depth. If you really feel that the ideas trump the chops, then listen to Bob Dylan, Tom Verlaine, Stan Ridgway, John Cale, Lloyd Cole, Ray Davies or ANY ARTIST THAT MOVES YOU. Is it really beyond the pale that relatively simple music could communicate beyond the humble parameters of it's own structural style?

I don't think it's either, but I do know that those who took the route of simplicity, actually
often do become limited in some ways, whereas look at how Opera expresses great themes.
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Points: 17510 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:20
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm philosophy = day-dreaming.
 
 
...okay, I can live with that.
 
I'm willing to bet that a lot omore music is created off day-dreaming, than it is off any philosophy ... not to mention that when it is about philosophy you end up with lyrics that make your stomach want to turn left and leave the country!
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Points: 17510 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2013 at 11:38
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
I love sci-fi in general especially the Blade Runner vision of a dystopian future
...
 
I did not think the music was ... sci-fi ... any more than the whole thing had such an incredibly well defined and photographed feel, that made it all come across as "sci-fi". The music, if anything was highly romantic and made you associate with the characters in it. In that sense it was pure movie magic!
 
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
In can be a hard thing to get right. For me Eloy nailed the sci fi thing with Planets and Time To Turn
...
Hawkwind have to be mentioned of course. We had a record deck in the school common room and they seemed to be on constantly. Listening to them now brings back a weird nostalgia.
...
 
This is strange ... the whole "out of this world" and "sci-fi" thing came about with the help of "2001, A Space Odyssey" and the first man on the moon ... and the fact that Nasa, at that time also circulated some tapes that also had "space wind" on them ... and since the synthesizer (which could duplicate that sound!)  had so many incredible new sounds that we were not familiar with, it was automatically associated with "sci-fi" and "out there" which kinda helped the whole "space" and "out there" thing.  AND, it doesn't help that films like "Forbidden Planet" also had a complete electronic soundtrack that no one could relate to, that made "space" sound so different and strange. THAT, btw, has never been re-used in electronics anywhere, which in some ways tells you how scary it can be for many people that are not centered enough inside and live on the edge of their dreams and nightmares, instead!
 
Thus, Hawkwind and Eloy, would not be good representatives of sci-fi, although their music had the synthesizer with it. Hawkwind, went for the more unusual sounds in rock music, where as Eloy, could be considered more conventional in their use of the synthesizers, although some of their lyrics would try to suggest otherwise.
 
As much as I like these, I never thought of them as "sci-fi" ... and the only ones, that could be said to be almost pure "sci-fi" would be Magma in my book!
 
To me, this is one of the saddest things about the synthesizer history ... that it lost its early "primeval" feel (check out Beaver and Krause!) and then became just like any other instrument in the orchestra and a "new instrument" got wasted! AND forgotten! Some of the "analog" users nowadays, are simply using the sounds as an instrument substitute, instead of allowing the sounds to develop and create a nice, new, adventure and atmosphere, or texture! WHICH, we don't even allow other instruments to do these days anyway ... only the extended guitar solo could be said to fit!!!!!!! And this is the strength of the new Djam Karet album ... that many "prog" fashionistas (dressed just like Roger in the Wall), will not appreciate at all! They are not trippers ... they are soldiers of a commercial ideal!
 
Childhood's End!


Edited by moshkito - May 25 2013 at 11:53
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2013 at 00:21
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:



It's extremly sci fi laden. Just listen to the opening theme 'main titles.'





Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


...
I love sci-fi in general especially the Blade Runner vision of a dystopian future
...
 
I did not think the music was ... sci-fi ... any more than the whole thing had such an incredibly well defined and photographed feel, that made it all come across as "sci-fi". The music, if anything was highly romantic and made you associate with the characters in it. In that sense it was pure movie magic!
 
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
In can be a hard thing to get right. For me Eloy nailed the sci fi thing with Planets and Time To Turn
...Hawkwind have to be mentioned of course. We had a record deck in the school common room and they seemed to be on constantly. Listening to them now brings back a weird nostalgia.
...
 
This is strange ... the whole "out of this world" and "sci-fi" thing came about with the help of "2001, A Space Odyssey" and the first man on the moon ... and the fact that Nasa, at that time also circulated some tapes that also had "space wind" on them ... and since the synthesizer (which could duplicate that sound!)  had so many incredible new sounds that we were not familiar with, it was automatically associated with "sci-fi" and "out there" which kinda helped the whole "space" and "out there" thing.  AND, it doesn't help that films like "Forbidden Planet" also had a complete electronic soundtrack that no one could relate to, that made "space" sound so different and strange. THAT, btw, has never been re-used in electronics anywhere, which in some ways tells you how scary it can be for many people that are not centered enough inside and live on the edge of their dreams and nightmares, instead!
 
Thus, Hawkwind and Eloy, would not be good representatives of sci-fi, although their music had the synthesizer with it. Hawkwind, went for the more unusual sounds in rock music, where as Eloy, could be considered more conventional in their use of the synthesizers, although some of their lyrics would try to suggest otherwise.
 
As much as I like these, I never thought of them as "sci-fi" ... and the only ones, that could be said to be almost pure "sci-fi" would be Magma in my book!
 
To me, this is one of the saddest things about the synthesizer history ... that it lost its early "primeval" feel (check out Beaver and Krause!) and then became just like any other instrument in the orchestra and a "new instrument" got wasted! AND forgotten! Some of the "analog" users nowadays, are simply using the sounds as an instrument substitute, instead of allowing the sounds to develop and create a nice, new, adventure and atmosphere, or texture! WHICH, we don't even allow other instruments to do these days anyway ... only the extended guitar solo could be said to fit!!!!!!! And this is the strength of the new Djam Karet album ... that many "prog" fashionistas (dressed just like Roger in the Wall), will not appreciate at all! They are not trippers ... they are soldiers of a commercial ideal!
 
Childhood's End!
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 17510 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:04
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

...
It's extremly sci fi laden. Just listen to the opening theme 'main titles.'
...
 
Pure movie magic!
 
"Forbidden Planet" is probably the first and only "true" sci-fi piece of work in that it starts, and continues ... to be out there. Music included. Also visually defined, with work by Walt Disney that they did not want to be associated with at all, because it was not in keeping with the crap they did!
 
"Blade Runner", is by far, one of my favorite films ever ... top three ... but it brings home the movie magic so beautifully, while also tieing up the story really well ... and the novelty of Vangelis' music made it even stronger and more valuable ... but is not the story! And above all, specially for Hollywood standards, it is a love story ... and the music fits it! A love story that takes on much bigger dimentions than the main character ever thought, or understood at the time!
 
Pure movie magic ... and beautifully written and presented by a film maker that knew and understood fantasy ... which made it all the more "sci-fi". Just because it showed some scenes and shots that were straight out of some sci-fi books does not make it sci-fi ... it's like you calling me sci-fi because I can quote Ray Bradbury or other writers in the genre ... my favorite of which happens to be "Stranger in a Strangeland" ... samething here!
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 00:15
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

...
It's extremly sci fi laden. Just listen to the opening theme 'main titles.'

...

 
Pure movie magic!
 
"Forbidden Planet" is probably the first and only "true" sci-fi piece of work in that it starts, and continues ... to be out there. Music included. Also visually defined, with work by Walt Disney that they did not want to be associated with at all, because it was not in keeping with the crap they did!
 
"Blade Runner", is by far, one of my favorite films ever ... top three ... but it brings home the movie magic so beautifully, while also tieing up the story really well ... and the novelty of Vangelis' music made it even stronger and more valuable ... but is not the story! And above all, specially for Hollywood standards, it is a love story ... and the music fits it! A love story that takes on much bigger dimentions than the main character ever thought, or understood at the time!
 
Pure movie magic ... and beautifully written and presented by a film maker that knew and understood fantasy ... which made it all the more "sci-fi". Just because it showed some scenes and shots that were straight out of some sci-fi books does not make it sci-fi ... it's like you calling me sci-fi because I can quote Ray Bradbury or other writers in the genre ... my favorite of which happens to be "Stranger in a Strangeland" ... samething here!


I like what you have said here. Very interesting. Thanks.
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Points: 17510 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 13:33
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

...
It's extremly sci fi laden. Just listen to the opening theme 'main titles.'

...

 
Pure movie magic!
 
"Forbidden Planet" is probably the first and only "true" sci-fi piece of work in that it starts, and continues ... to be out there. Music included. Also visually defined, with work by Walt Disney that they did not want to be associated with at all, because it was not in keeping with the crap they did!
 
"Blade Runner", is by far, one of my favorite films ever ... top three ... but it brings home the movie magic so beautifully, while also tieing up the story really well ... and the novelty of Vangelis' music made it even stronger and more valuable ... but is not the story! And above all, specially for Hollywood standards, it is a love story ... and the music fits it! A love story that takes on much bigger dimentions than the main character ever thought, or understood at the time!
 
Pure movie magic ... and beautifully written and presented by a film maker that knew and understood fantasy ... which made it all the more "sci-fi". Just because it showed some scenes and shots that were straight out of some sci-fi books does not make it sci-fi ... it's like you calling me sci-fi because I can quote Ray Bradbury or other writers in the genre ... my favorite of which happens to be "Stranger in a Strangeland" ... samething here!


I like what you have said here. Very interesting. Thanks.
 
Thanks a bunch ... you didn't have to say it but it is appreciated. To me, these arts, all go together, and the only separation there is, is one's knowledge of their time and place artistically!
 
This is the hard part of discussing some of these things ... when all one is familiar with it, is one side of the story, so to speak, and there are/were other arts that helped bring it alive.
 
Film history is very strong, but folks, like here, are way too tied up to the "top ten" to check out some of these old things, and specially film history, for which within 10 years, you endup gaining an appreciation that is different and rare. Do it in at least 5 countries ... and then do the same thing in music! And then literature ... and you will find some amazing parallels ... that are really hard to discuss here ... because the "song" has been separated from its body and its maker ... it belongs into a non-existent concept ... that has de-personalized it into ... nothing! And no one, not even you, wants that. It's not why you write, is it? Or play music? Or care for something so much that you make something of that feeling!  ... now you know why "Blade Runner" is so important to me ... I can easily tell you Roy's last lines! ... but they are all tears in the rain ... because so many people here will simply not give a damn! Their lives weren't at stake ... so screw it!
 
Things like "Forbidden Planet" would be the ultimate for 3D and its absolutely insane design, a lot of which you will find in "Star Wars" and "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" and "2001, A Space Odyssey". But like another film that also used backwards and different speeds on its sound effects along with some electronic stuff, however, not so hardcore as the original, which was a total non-compromise, would have been the likes of "The Day The Earth Stood Still" and some others, though I have not seen "X, the Unknown" and other films at the time. Some of these remakes left behind the filming history they helped create, which is one of the main reasons why those films were so famous ... otherwise, the sets would be all cardboard ... see the problem?
 
The same thing happened to the history of the synthesizer. And music!
 
It's only valuable, when the "cardboard" disappears, and things like "Blade Runner" ... are pure movie magic. As for it being sci-fi, yes it is, but compared to "Forbidden Planet", it's just a love story!


Edited by moshkito - May 27 2013 at 13:36
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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presdoug View Drop Down
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Points: 8615 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 16:47
^In 2001, for me, the part that clinches things for me with the film and music, is when the ape discovers that a simple bone can be used as a tool, or weapon, and then comes in the beginning of Also Sprach Zarathustra, it sends chills down my spine every time! That whole piece of music of Richard Strauss's, over half an hour long, is an incredible odyssey in itself.
          
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Points: 140 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2013 at 17:31
2001 is pretty amazing when you consider the structure they used, with so little dialog for much of the duration.  I've actually been waiting for a movie version of another Arthur C Clarke classic "Rendezvous with Rama" for quite a while.  David Fincher was slated to direct it around 10 years ago but now it looks as though it won't happen.  It's a story that would be difficult to translate to a movie, I admit, but if they did it well it would be incredible.
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