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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 11:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


<span style="line-height: 1.2;">
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

</span><span style="line-height: 1.2;">A frescoes from Serbian monastery Visoki Dečani, 1335 AD

</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
An embroidery, Bayeux Cathedral 1476 CE.
..and your point is?



Our painter was much better.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 11:52
LOL
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 12:44
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
..and your point is?

 

Our painter was much better.
Stern Smile joking aside... I don't want to assume, presume, guess, presuppose, conjecture or speculate the point you are attempting to make in posting an image without any accompanying expression in your words of what your opinions and thoughts are on the image.

You could, for example, be illustrating that medieval fresco painters liked to add extraneous detail into their artwork that is not contained within any of the literary texts associated with the biblical event that the painting is supposed to describe. However, comparing the painting with other medieval paintings of the crucifixion shows that Jesus is often depicted being flanked by angels (which is also true of your Kosovo fresco, though that is not clear in the poor quality image you posted), such as this one:


 but also by the Sun and Moon, as shown here:
and here:

and these celestial bodies are sometimes show with faces:
and here

and sometimes they are shown as containing angels, such as here:

SO....

When we see a medieval fresco painting that shows beings contained in orbs coursing through the sky that are radiating stylised rays of silver and golden light respectively do we conclude that they are medieval representations of the sun and moon and their guiding angels or do we apply a modern interpretation and presume they are showing ancient alien visitors to our planet?



So... I repeat:  

and your [effing] point is?


Edited by Dean - January 03 2014 at 12:46
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Points: 260 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 13:46
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

I've been interested in the UFO Phenomenon for over 30 years and while posting in the 'what have you read lately ' thread I noticed another member mentioned the ufo phenom so I  thought I would start a thread about the enigma.
The phenom covers several aspects including but not limited to the following: day and night sightings of ufos, close encounters with ufos as well as 'aliens', and the so-called abduction phenomenon. These have been classified as CE (close encounters) 1,2,3, and 4. There are also paranormal events often associated with the enigma which makes it even more interesting in some cases that are usually called 'high strangeness' cases.
Many books have been written over the last 50 years covering all of the various better known cases, events,  and theories which include the ETH-extraterrestrial hypothesis, the  EDH-extradimensional hypothesis, and the PSH-the psychosocial hypothesis. There are of course many books  on famous cases like the Roswell event, the Rendlesham-Bentwaters events,  the Walton abduction and the Hill abduction. There are also several good articles at Wiki and at various online web sites for those who want more background.
I suspect  that those who wish to get into this probably have a working knowledge of the subject already but if anyone wants me to point them to some books or web sites just give me a heads up.
 
I think the best place to start is for those who want to disucss this to say right up front what their position or belief is about the phenom. For me I'll say that the UFO phenom for me is a legitimate phenom that has been experienced worldwide for a very long time . I believe, as does Dr J Vallee who's ideas I tend to agree with, that the phenom has been with mankind for millenia in one form or another . Whatever is behind what we call the UFO enigma is not new and only a modern phenom but something that has been appearing to humans for thousands of years .
Some think it's space aliens/ET-the ETH, some think it's a paranormal/occult issue or interdimensional beings-the EDH, while others think it's merely a figment of human imagination, folklore, mythology, and psychological problems-the PSH.
 
What do you think?
 

Wow, that's incredible! I never imagined that here it was possible to speak about this. 
This is a complex issue that could change seriously global structures.
I believe that we are, for a half,  the same seed of a population more advanced then ours. Some ancient populations have left to us so many clues. Is impossible that millennia-old testimonials are only religious belief? No, absolutely not!
The truth is that someone don't want that nobody knows. There are a lot of concept to say about this. A good start point I think is to read Zecharia Sitchin's book, I read them almost all. Another interesting writer is Mauro Biglino. A translator of Bible of Masoretic text code. 
Anyhow the UFO phenomenon are a concrete thing, a fact. These are tangible manifestations of their presence, a presence that exist on Earth by ever. Many many years ago there was a collaborations with us human. After having created us was happened something. The fact is that the collaborations broke up, caused also for our independence as human (Adamo and Eva), which today is controlled by a few powerful people that still in contact with an alien race.

Ok stop there are so many things to say. Anyway if you want you could search our roots in Sumerian civilization...

Marco.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 21:23




Edited by Svetonio - January 03 2014 at 23:40
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 21:35





Edited by Svetonio - January 03 2014 at 23:17
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 22:40
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
..and your point is?

 

Our painter was much better.
Stern Smile joking aside... (...) Jesus is often depicted being flanked by angels (which is also true of your Kosovo fresco, though that is not clear in the poor quality image you posted) (...)

"Poor quality image" I posted? LOL
ok here's a very poor quality video about the frescoes in Visoki Dečani the monastery (painted 1335 AD):




Due the fact that you see just a naive art painter's vision of two avarage angels who are drivers of the Sun and the Moon, I presume that you will be so satisfied to see thIs Glorification on the Eucharist, painted 1600 AD; today it hangs in San Lorenzo church in San Pietro, Italy:




Dont worry, Dean. Any similarity with Sputnik satellite was accidental LOL






Edited by Svetonio - January 03 2014 at 23:28
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 02:56
Once again.

...and your point is?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 04:44
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
..and your point is?

 

Our painter was much better.
Stern Smile joking aside... (...) Jesus is often depicted being flanked by angels (which is also true of your Kosovo fresco, though that is not clear in the poor quality image you posted) (...)

"Poor quality image" I posted? LOL
ok here's a very poor quality video about the frescoes in Visoki Dečani the monastery (painted 1335 AD):

I was referring to the poor quality scan of the whole fresco shown in your posted image that didn't show the detail of the two angels on either side of the cross, this better quality scan shows them in better resolution:
 

Now, are you going to deny that your image is a lower quality scan than this?
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Points: 65410 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 04:47
I assume his point is that seemingly otherworldly events are captured in ancient art.   Though to me, a man in a starship or balls of fire in the sky don't indicate anything paranormal.  

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 05:45
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I assume his point is that seemingly otherworldly events are captured in ancient art.   Though to me, a man in a starship or balls of fire in the sky don't indicate anything paranormal.  

Exactly, that's my point.
I agreed that those starships at the frescoes don't indicate anything paranormal   per se.
However, they are painted starships from 1335 AD.
That's a problem of perception actually - somebody will always see only a naive painting of Sun & Moon with two angels inside just because a conservative way of thinking don't allow anything what could be different from an official theory.


Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 05:57
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 05:48
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


Oh for pity's sake. 

Why would anyone believe (or even think) this is evidence of a large structure on the surface of the Moon? 

The Repsold R crater just "south" of the alleged structure is 117 km in diameter so simple analysis of the image gives the so-called building length of 1000 km and a width of 120 km. A feature that large would not only be visible on every map and photograph of the Oceanus Procellarum, every professional and amateur astronomer that has ever looked through a telescope at the Moon would have seen it.

The shadows of all the craters shows that they are illuminated from the "east-south-east", yet this apparent structure is illuminated from "north-north-east" - this is physically impossible since we do not have two Suns, and if we did then all the features would cast double shadows.

The longitude and latitude lines on the image are curved in the photograph showing the degree of image distortion present in the photograph. Maps represent these as straight lines as this is how we project a curved surface such as a sphere onto a flat surface such as a map (see wikipedia on map projection) - a straight line projected onto a curved surface will appear to be curved, similarly what appears to look like a straight line on a curved surface is actually a curve. What this means is the presumed structure would only appear to be perfectly straight if viewed from the exact position in space that the photograph was taken from. Seen from any other position in space the supposed building would be curved and tapered. Are people really going to suggest that this has been deliberately constructed so that it appears to be perfectly straight when viewed from one specific point in the orbit of the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter?

Examination of the image shows that the purported structure runs parallel to the scan-lines of the camera on board the LRO. Also the image is not one continuous photograph, it is a mosaic of several smaller photographs pieced together - evidence of this is obvious even in the video as the edges of successive images can easily be seen. It is not a coincidence that the reputed structure is on exactly the same orientation as both the scan lines and the individual photograph edges, from this it is evident that it is an artefact of the imaging process and not a physical structure.




These videos, photographs and paintings are an amusing diversion but frankly, they do not stand up to even the most casual scrutiny. What they reveal is not evidence of aliens, but the degree to which people are prepared to believe.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 05:56
^^ The videos and pics leaked from NASA.

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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:08
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I assume his point is that seemingly otherworldly events are captured in ancient art.   Though to me, a man in a starship or balls of fire in the sky don't indicate anything paranormal.  

I know what he was probably inferring, I wanted it from his own mouth in his own words. I don't presume to assume anything.

 
A man in a starship in the 12th century is paranormal. Even if it was 100% real it is still paranormal. We must agree use a common vocabulary here or it just becomes a game of clever word play, and that will only add to the confusion, especially for those for whom English is a second language.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:11
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

^^ The videos and pics leaked from NASA.

And your point is?

Either present alternative ideas of your own or discuss the points I have made and refute them.

These were not "leaked" from NASA, they were openly published by NASA.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:20
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

^^ The videos and pics leaked from NASA.


(...) These were not "leaked" from NASA, (...)</span>

Well, I know people who think (and could arguing for hours to deny that) that the Wikileaks, Assange and Snowden are a project by CIA actually. Why? because "it's impossible that something leaks from CIA - CIA controlled all"

Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 06:30
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:27
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...) 
A man in a starship in the 12th century is paranormal. Even if it was 100% real it is still paranormal. We must agree use a common vocabulary here or it just becomes a game of clever word play, and that will only add to the confusion, especially for those for whom English is a second language.

Not only the language barriers are the problem.
Or, it is a problem, but a problem that could be solved.
Our ways of thinking are different and that can't be solved.

Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 06:32
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:32
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

^^ The videos and pics leaked from NASA.


(...) These were not "leaked" from NASA, (...)</span>

Well, I know people who think (and could arguing for hours to deny that) that the Wikileaks, Assange and Snowden are a project by CIA actually. Why? because "nothing can't leaks form CIA"
Argh! Completely irrelevant.

Please do not quote me out of context, I said:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

These were not "leaked" from NASA, they were openly published by NASA.

Not leaked. Published on the NASA website by NASA. Do you even know the difference?
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

^^ The videos and pics leaked from NASA.


(...) These were not "leaked" from NASA, (...)</span>

Well, I know people who think (and could arguing for hours to deny that) that the Wikileaks, Assange and Snowden are a project by CIA actually. Why? because "nothing can't leaks form CIA"

Argh! Completely irrelevant.
Please do not quote me out of context, I said:
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;">
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

<span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">These were not "leaked" from NASA,</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;"> they were openly published by NASA.</span>
Not leaked. Published on the NASA website by NASA. Do you even know the difference?


The materials weren't originally published at NASA website.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:40
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I assume his point is that seemingly otherworldly events are captured in ancient art.   Though to me, a man in a starship or balls of fire in the sky don't indicate anything paranormal.  

Exactly, that's my point.
I agreed that those starships at the frescoes don't indicate anything paranormal   per se.
Hovewer, they are painted starships from 1335 AD.
That's a problem of perception actually - somebody will always see only a naive painting of Sun & Moon with two angels inside just because a conservative way of thinking don't allow anything what could be different from an official theory.
 
So. I see. You seem to be very certain that they are painted starships from the 12th century. You are very quick to dismiss all other possible explanations, even those that make sense and have associative evidence. 

I did not present evidence of showing the Sun and Moon in medieval paintings of the crucifixion "just because a conservative way of thinking " or because it was the "official theory", quite the contrary in fact, I present them as an alternative (non-conservative, progressive) way of examining the obvious 21st century explanation (they are spaceships). I have no idea what the conservative official theory is any more than you do. I looked at the image you posted and saw something so blindingly obvious to me that I had to investigate it further, in doing so I found other images that supported that interpretation. If you refute my findings then do so. Show me one medieval image that shows the Sun, the Moon AND two occupied flying saucers. Demonstrate to me that my interpretation that the two objects are stylised images of the Sun and Moon cannot possibly be correct. Use that open mind of yours. 


btw: There is nothing naive in the artwork of the fresco artist, naive art is something entirely different.
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