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Joined: February 19 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 645
Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:00
Adams Bolero wrote:
[QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]
Well, less see:
Genesis golden era finished in 1974 when The Lamb was released
The last 100% prog album (that we all agree) was released in 1976 - 1977
Very few of the Progheads here are old enough to have seen them on stage
The production of their first album sucks (Up to Nursery Cryme).
Many people has prejudices against the Pop era
There are no decent videos from the Golden era unlike Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, ELP, Jethro Tull etc.
They were unpopular in their heyday in comparison with all the other major Prog bands (At least in UK because they were N° 1 in Italy)
They have been the main influence for a whole sub-genre
Lately there seems to be a campaign against Gabriel era
But still
They are the most popular Prog band here and in every Prog site that has polls or forums (I visited them all) except in DDD and Scarulfi where only one person does the rankings.
They are recognized by every piece of Prog literature as one of the most respected and influential Prog bands.
Most of the modern Symphonic (and other genres) bands claim that Genesis was one of the most important influences in their career.
And still, with all the odds against them, they have usually one album in the top of every Prog ranking and at least three more albums in the top 20?
How can they be overrated?
They got the respect they earned and deserve...At least IMO.
Iván
Well, let's see...
1- Oh really? And I am wearing a black underwear. Interesting, huh?
2- Again... very nice information.
3- Do you really have to see a band on the stage? So most of us missed all the classic prog bands at their golden era. And I don't even know what it has to do with being over or underrated at all, like number 1 and 2 above.
4- If this is a so important factor, almost no-one would love them. And I disagree about that. The production doesn't suck.
5- I have. They suck even more at their pop era. SHAME!
6- And? My underwear is still black.
7- Genesis unpopular? Hahahaha. Maybe in comparison to other bands, but we are talking about Genesis.
8- That's the point!!! They influenced a whole sub-genre being that bad... that's the point when we say they are overrated.
9- Well, I don't see what this has to do with being over or underrated. And better Gabriel than the pop era.
1- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
2- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
3- It also doesn't mean anything. Many bands I love have influences of bands I dislike. So what? They are not their copy.
And to finish... We are talking about musical taste, which cannot be discussed. To me, they are overrated because they aren't that good (to my ears) and are loved like gods. But to you, they are gods. In your opinion. But no matter what words we use, none of our opinions will change. I won't start liking Genesis and you won't start disliking them. To me, they will always be overrated and to you, they will always be fair judged (or maybe underrated?)
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:25
Junges wrote:
Well, let's see...
1- Oh really? And I am wearing a black underwear. Interesting, huh?
2- Again... very nice information
3- Do you really have to see a band on the stage? So most of us missed all the classic prog bands at their golden era. And I don't even know what it has to do with being over or underrated at all, like number 1 and 2 above.¿
4- If this is a so important factor, almost no-one would love them. And I disagree about that. The production doesn't suck.
5- I have. They suck even more at their pop era. SHAME!
6- And? My underwear is still black.
7- Genesis unpopular? Hahahaha. Maybe in comparison to other bands, but we are talking about Genesis.
8- That's the point!!! They influenced a whole sub-genre being that bad... that's the point when we say they are overrated.
9- Well, I don't see what this has to do with being over or underrated. And better Gabriel than the pop era.
1- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
2- Yes, they are! That's what makes them overrated.
3- It also doesn't mean anything. Many bands I love have influences of bands I dislike. So what? They are not their copy.
And to finish... We are talking about musical taste, which cannot be discussed. To me, they are overrated because they aren't that good (to my ears) and are loved like gods. But to you, they are gods. In your opinion. But no matter what words we use, none of our opinions will change. I won't start liking Genesis and you won't start disliking them. To me, they will always be overrated and to you, they will always be fair judged (or maybe underrated?)
Peace.
Had a reply ready, but deleted, you are not worth a reply.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
Posted: January 25 2011 at 12:44
So..It's ok to say a band is overrated without giving reasons except that you don't like them and respond nonsenses but it's wrong to give reasons why I believe it's not underrated?
Again, no time to waste.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 25 2011 at 12:51
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
Posted: January 25 2011 at 13:07
Ratings are just opinions.
If that many people on this site love Genesis enough to rate them highly, then their rating is an accurate assessment of how people on this site feel about them. That's the best we can do. Ratings are a popularity contest, nothing more.
As long as people here are honest about their reviews and ratings, then there is no way any band can be "overrated" here.
The real value in the review/rating system here is that anyone can locata a reviewer whose tastes are similar to their own, and look for recommendations based on those tastes.
To get offended by what other people like or dislike is quite absurd.
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17848
Posted: January 25 2011 at 13:21
hobocamp wrote:
That is perhaps because we both find you ludicrous in your approach towards reasonable dialogue.
What I don't understand is that you two are trying to trash him because of his opinion on Genesis or Pink Floyd or whatever......Its his opinion and Ivan has listed the points why he feels this way.
Telling me your underwear is black does not tell me why you disagree with someone.
Its an opinion....agree to disagree and you two move on.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
Posted: January 25 2011 at 13:26
Catcher, don't worry, they are trying to look smart, it's a waste of time trying to give arguments when somebody doesn't want to hear anything that doesn't come from his mouth
Usually I would be replying and being as stubborn as I am, but in this case and after the twisted panties and black underwear arguments used by both (I still find the two styles incredibly similar), it's a waste of time.
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13637
Posted: January 25 2011 at 13:43
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Catcher, don't worry, they are trying to look smart, it's a waste of time trying to give arguments when somebody doesn't want to hear anything that doesn't come from his mouth
Usually I would be replying and being as stubborn as I am, but in this case and after the twisted panties and black underwear arguments used by both (I still find the two styles incredibly similar), it's a waste of time.
Iván
We've all seen some strange debates on the site, but twisted panties and black underwear are new to me. I'm sure there must be a specialist website dealing with such matters
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Joined: April 17 2010
Location: Fine Furniture
Status: Offline
Points: 525
Posted: January 25 2011 at 14:22
Catcher10 wrote:
hobocamp wrote:
That is perhaps because we both find you ludicrous in your approach towards reasonable dialogue.
What I don't understand is that you two are trying to trash him because of his opinion on Genesis or Pink Floyd or whatever......Its his opinion and Ivan has listed the points why he feels this way.
Telling me your underwear is black does not tell me why you disagree with someone.
Its an opinion....agree to disagree and you two move on.
Thank you for your interest. My involvement in this thread goes something like this (paraphrased):
Subject: Is Genesis overrated?
My post: No, but Pink Floyd is.
Ivan: (quotes record sales) How can they be overrated?
My post: Their success does not mean I necessarily enjoy their music as much as Genesis.
Ivan: Not correct.
and
"progheads" do not forgive success...
So my opinion is not correct and I am a proghead? And then he goes after my age and maturity; since his argument is weak he argues from authority and attacks me personally. Nice.
btw getting your panties twisted is a common saying for being upset in the American vernacular, and all the sexual implications were created by others and not me. The "put things in each other's mouth" was intended to be a sexual reference because, after all, he opened the door by implying that I did not forgive success (putting words in my mouth).
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
Posted: January 25 2011 at 15:23
hobocamp wrote:
Thank you for your interest. My involvement in this thread goes something like this (paraphrased):
Subject: Is Genesis overrated?
My post: No, but Pink Floyd is.
Ivan: (quotes record sales) How can they be overrated?
My post: Their success does not mean I necessarily enjoy their music as much as Genesis.
Ivan: Not correct.
Correction:
I said
No I don't believe Pink Floyd is overrated for this reasons:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I like Pink Floyd but not a particular fan.
Despite this fact, you can't affirm that the first and only Prog band that released two albums that have 55 million copies sold.
Dark Side of the Moon not only reached the 35'000,000 mark, but still sells 250,000 more albums per year than any 70's band.
The Wall sold 20'000,000 copies not counting the 2 DVD's (The Movie by Pink Floyd and Live in Berlin by Roger Waters) plus the Live in Berlin album.
Lets not forget:
Wish you were Here....10'000,000
Ummagumma....5'000,000
Animals...4'000,0000 only in USA
The only Prog band that has broken the 200'000,000 copies barrier
Sales are not the equivalent of quality, but if a Prog (nopt commercial) Progressive Rock band (fighting the prejudices against the genre) reaches this levels of sales...I'm sure they deserve recognition.
How can they be overrated?
Iván.
This were my reasons...Is this so offensive to you?
You called me fanboy, when I'm not remotely a Pink Floyd Fan, but it doesn't matter, I gave my reasons and arguments, if you don't like them make your own arguments, but never tryto silence people who are giving opiniobns.
hobocamp wrote:
and
"progheads" do not forgive success...
I have said this many times, there are threads about this, many times has been DISCUSSED, but you don' want to discuss, you want people to say what you want to listen...And no pal, this won't happen here,
hobocamp wrote:
So my opinion is not correct and I am a proghead?
Are you paranoid?
There are 50,000 Progheads in this site, and the issue about Progressive Rock fans liking bands because they are obscure has been debated thousands of times, but in no ocasion anybody got angry.
hobocamp wrote:
And then he goes after my age and maturity; since his argument is weak he argues from authority and attacks me personally. Nice.
Of course I went with your age...Do you believe this reply comes from a mature person?
hobocamp wrote:
The T wrote:
And this doesn't mean anyone has to agree with you.
You and Ivan should get a room. That way you can put things in each others mouths and stop putting words in mine.
After this, the least I can ask is your age
hobocamp wrote:
btw getting your panties twisted is a common saying for being upset in the American vernacular, and all the sexual implications were created by others and not me. The "put things in each other's mouth" was intended to be a sexual reference because, after all, he opened the door by implying that I did not forgive success (putting words in my mouth).
Please, don't try to play the innocent game.
You recommended The T and me to get a room and then you say you don't like me when I have my panties twisted...And you say this are not infantile sexual connotations?
Please, nobody here is an idiot.
BTW: Your excuse is absolutely lame
I use phrases with sexual connotations (Not that I care, vbecause neither I'm gay nor I ever cared about other person's sexual orientation
But you say "I'm not guilty because I didn't gave this phrases the connotations they have".
From the moment you use them and know what they imply, you are responsible for using them...B
You must believe we are idiots.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 25 2011 at 15:23
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Genesis overrated?
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Catcher10 wrote:
