Quo Vadis Ukraine?

Lewian wrote: Prof. Jeffrey Sachs: "I'm siding with Ukraine" - other than that, not a single word in the whole video about what the Ukrainians actually want and whether they'd prefer to fight and defend themselves rather than letting themselves be overrun by Russia, which apparently is Prof. Sachs's advice to avoid more deaths. Send this to Kyiv and ask the Ukrainians whether they'd be happy having this kind of "friend".

and not only in Kyiv - those different from sofa-thinkers, who knows the situation better (i.i. not from both sides propaganda) understand , that Ukraine was targeted as "Westerners weak link", not because of Ukraine itself. putin's regime is testing, what is real "red line" (not Obama's pink dreams redline) - how much lazy pacifist West is ready to sacrifice to eurasian criminals just to avoid participation in a real war. it's a big question, if putin is ready for real world with the West, since he understands pretty well it would be the end for him, his regime and the russian empire hundreds years project in general. But at some point russian fuhrer found out that Westerners are ready to pay a lot just to avoid to be disturbed, to lose their comfortable life even partially(a thing, unbelievable for russian mentality).

So, putin is blackmailing Westerners, seeing how weak they are (to be such a weak in putin's (and generally in russian culture) book means you're loser of lowest grade. Than, such losers must be robbed and enslaved, that's the way russians behaved with them for ages, nothing changed in their collective mentality till now.

So - if not Ukraine, there could be someone else - pacifist non-NATO Sweden, demilitarized Japan, their regular enemies Poland + Baltics, you chose. If Ukraine will lose the war, it will show russian chunta that they can continue destroying Western civilization step by step

Edited by snobb - October 12 2023 at 03:12

snobb wrote: If Ukraine will lose the war

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 12 2023 at 07:20

MikeEnRegalia wrote:        ...........They have lost the war..........

this is a straight citation from (most probably) your main information source - "Russia Today" TV channel :)


For sure, the open question is what means for Ukraine to win the war :

1. To return back the Eastern (Luhansk + Donetsk areas) and Southern (Kherson area & seaside) occupied territories

2. To return back ALL occupied territories (as below, plus Crimea) = it looks like the most well-balanced solution, accepted by all sides

3. To return back all occupied territories and continue towards russia motherland with a main target to initiate the dismantling of criminal chunta's regime and possible breakdown of russian empire to 7-12 independent (and predominantly non-russian) national states

Edited by snobb - October 12 2023 at 04:44

Seriously, Scott Ritter?? Do you not do research on the background of the people you are using to forward your argument?

Snobb says:

^ they say, sometimes to look from the long distance is good, than you see the whole picture :)

so, you see pretty well some Western politicians intentions, I agree here


I see from much shorter distance (abt. 25 miles from the border of great russian empire). I see more details than :)

From the very first days of the russian aggression on Ukraine I started working in Ukrainian refugees registration centers (after my daytime work). I saw face to face hundreds of people, registering each of them, listening many stories from the first lips. Mostly women with children and old people. They told me with fear in their eyes about raped sisters, killed friends and parents, burned houses. russian army behaved in occupied territories right same way as Nazis during WWII.

Later, for months, already as daytime work (as a Chief officer in headquarter of State Migration Dept) I worked with hundreds of Ukrainians files, especially difficult cases. Speaking with people, collecting evidences of russian brutality among others.

From my short distance experience, I can say you one thing - Ukrainians will never agree to live under russian occupation. If they will receive Western ammunition and guns - they will win faster, if not - they fight with the knifes, but after what they survived now they will never barbarian's slaves again[/QUOTE]

omphaloskepsis wrote: Furthermore, I predict that after the war, the Russian-controlled parts of Ukraine will prosper more than the non-Russian parts. Since 2021, Russia's economy went from 11th in the world to 6th.  Within two years, Russia's economy will pass Japan's for 5th.  Meanwhile, Germany's economic growth reversed.  Without cheap Russian energy, the German industrial juggernaut is shrinking.

This sounds like the story from parallel world, then again - probably you know something I don't know :)

You can find enough info how todays russian controlled Ukraine territories looks like (Luhansk-Donetsk area)

omphaloskepsis wrote: [QUOTE=snobb] [QUOTE=omphaloskepsis] <span style="font-size: medium;">Luhansk-Donetsk are on the current front line.  I could show you videos of Saint Petersburg to show you how Russians live.  I said, "after the war" not as Ukraine bombs the </span><span style="font-size: medium;">Luhansk-Donetsk</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> oblasts. </span> <span style="font-size: medium;">

thanks, I know russia pretty well - have been there many times, from St. Petersburg to Moscow, to Briansk, to Irkutsk, Ural area, etc. (and yes - I speak russian , native level:))

St. Petersburg is most-non-russian city there, build by German-origin tsar Peter the Great and Italian architects, russians never felt comfortable there, for generations

omphaloskepsis wrote: If your statements are based on reality, then what you say will happen.  If my statements are based on reality, then my predictions will come to pass.

didn't think I would return to this thread but Scott Ritter???

Mike - just stop, it's beyond embarassing at this point. I kinda feel sorry for you (despite you never addressing yoir unhinged pro-russian talking points I debunked with facts on pages 5 and 6)

I do! You're almost 50 and you'll still have to fight against russia and Iran in WWIII next year...