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Dean 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
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 Posted: May 04 2013 at 20:00 |
 Atavachron wrote:
With all the new drone technology being publicly utilized, and that was obviously available to those with access to it years ago, is it a surprise people are seeing all number of airborne constructions?
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...and you don't have to be a top secret black-ops military establishment to do it either. You can buy everything you need to construct one in your backyard from eBay.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
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Points: 5154
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 03:38 |
If some children see this at night they can imagine all sorts of things
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Dean
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 06:21 |
^ The technology of unstable, non-aerodynamic flight has made significant progress over the past twenty years. You can go into a toy store and buy a ready-made self-stabalising craft over the counter for less than $100. The advent of the $20 microcontroller and the $5 solid-state gyroscope (both available from eBay) that have more processing power and greater sensitivity than anything used on the Apollo space program, along with improved efficiencies in electric motor and battery design has made multicopters not only possible, but practical and realisable in a kitchen workshop. This is technology (which we in the 21st century would call "simple") that the designers of the Avrocar in the 1950s did not have, so buiding that tech into unmanned/manned jet or vectored-thrust propulsion craft is now only a matter of engineering and appliction, not innovation.
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20642
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 10:24 |
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Dean wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
I hoped for more from you Dean......so why not name a few of the things that you think it could have been since you don't believe it was an alien spacecraft...?
I might be able to give you more 'salient' pieces of info about the event.
btw, I'm not trying to put you on the spot here but I would really like to hear your ideas about what they might have experienced if it was not a real aircraft. |
Sorry to disappoint - shut me up twice and the possibility presenting you with a third opportunity becomes increasingly less likely.
If you have more evidence then provide it, if you haven't then don't.
The information provided does not give enough reference points to even make wild guesses. As I have said before, we are terrible at judging size, speed and (especially) distance - this can be demonstrated easily and explained using the mathematics of persective geometry - "a small house" 200 feet in the air looks the same as a 20-story building 2000 feet in the air that is ten times further away and will look the same as a dog-kennel 20 feet in the air at one tenth the distance. The problem there is the distance along the ground (ie depth) does not follow that simple relationship when projecting that 3D reality onto a 2D plane (ie how we see in perspective) - therefore we are rubbish at judging distances which puts a question mark over any size estimates made by eye-withnesses. |
So then you have no idea what it could have been yet you dismiss the idea it could have been some type of aircraft, earth based or otherwise, ....that seems very prejudiced to me. |
I have never said it wasn't some type of aircraft, nor did I dismiss the posibility, I said: "They saw a UFO. That is the simplest explanation because what they saw was Unidentified."
Seriously: "typical saucer shaped with both gold and silver metal colors and was as large as a small house" and can "hover over the field... slowly moved off then left very fast and was gone very quickly" may be enough information for you to make all the wild guess you care to make but it's not enough information for me to make a considered one, and I don't do wild guesses unless I'm being obviously sarcastic, for example: "it's a giant electric banana" [I too am a hoot at parties].
dr wu23 wrote:
It sounds like you are relcutant to even make a guess for personal reasons and your excuses seem simply weak to me. |
The weakness of my excuse is immaterial. If I don't like the way you respond to my longer posts then my reluctance to be drawn into making guesses that I'm not interested in making is understandable. The blame does not lay with me for that.
dr wu23 wrote:
There are not that many things it could have been...period. |
Based upon the very limited information you have provided and taking into account the many possible errors in that information, there are many things that it could have been... random punctuation.
dr wu23 wrote:
Prove me wrong and tell me why you can't even make a wild guess. |
I don't have to prove you wrong when you haven't proved yourself right. The onus is on you to provide proof, which thus far you have failed to do.
If you think that there are not that many things that it could have been then why don't you tell the boys and girls reading this what those things are and explain why.
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Another long evasive post.......
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 12:00 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 17:03 |
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At least we can agree that many of the aero-kinetic objects people are seeing are real; that is, they exist externally and are not hallucinations, haphazard identifications of balloons or normal aircraft at tangential angles, intentional hoaxes, or disturbed visions.
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 17:26 |
Atavachron wrote:
At least we can agree that many of the aero-kinetic objects people are seeing are real; that is, they exist externally and are not hallucinations, haphazard identifications of balloons or normal aircraft at tangential angles, intentional hoaxes, or disturbed visions. |
How do you mean?
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 17:59 |
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^ I thought paired with my drone post it made sense-
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Dean
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 18:57 |
Atavachron wrote:
^ I thought paired with my drone post it made sense-
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Ah, right. The " and are not ... haphazard identifications of balloons or normal aircraft at tangential angles" threw me for a moment since I considered that to include all flying objects made on Earth by humans using engineering principles that do not defy any laws of physics, i.e. they are real and exist externally. I would also consider that " intentional hoaxes" are also real and exist externally.
If we take it that drones and experimental aircraft do not fit that category then I agree with that "At least we can agree that many of the aero-kinetic objects people are seeing are real".
So I would rephrase your comment as:
"At least we can agree that many of the aero-kinetic objects people are seeing are made on Earth by humans using engineering principles that do not defy any laws of physics; that is, they exist externally and are not hallucinations, or disturbed visions; nor are they misidentified insects, birds, ball-lightning, St. Elmo's Fire, will-o'-the-wisp, marsh gas, bolides, contrails, clouds, lighthouses, beacons, radio masts, flares, fireworks, reflections, refractions or aurora."
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Atavachron
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Posted: May 05 2013 at 20:16 |
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Dean you've been on such a voracious stint of loquacious eructations and vocabularic purgatives that I forgive your clearly drug-induced reinterpretation of my post and embrace it wholeheartedly.
And "bolides" was a new one.
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MythosDreamLab
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Joined: February 16 2013
Location: So. California
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Posted: January 02 2014 at 19:23 |
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Wow, just found this thread and while I have only read the first and last pages, I echo what the original poster (Dr Wu) stated about being interested in UFO's since the late 60's/early 70's.
What always amazes me when UFO's are addressed on non-UFO sites is the strong opinions by people that have done little or no research.
It would be like a Country-Western music fan putting down Yes or Genesis after hearing one song by them. That is not to say everyone's opinions don't matter, but if you are sick you go to a Doctor (someone who has studied medicine) as opposed to to taking advice from the homeless dude hanging out in front of the 99-cent store (no offense).
I'll make some more comments as I go through the thread.
Cheers, and for the next song, I will be playing: Have You Seen the Saucers by Jefferson Starship
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: January 02 2014 at 20:15 |
MythosDreamLab wrote:
Wow, just found this thread and while I have only read the first and last pages, I echo what the original poster (Dr Wu) stated about being interested in UFO's since the late 60's/early 70's.
What always amazes me when UFO's are addressed on non-UFO sites is the strong opinions by people that have done little or no research. |
It always amuses me the generalisations that some people are prone to make when the topic of UFOs comes up. What passes for research in this subject also raises a smile or two.
MythosDreamLab wrote:
It would be like a Country-Western music fan putting down Yes or Genesis after hearing one song by them. That is not to say everyone's opinions don't matter, but if you are sick you go to a Doctor (someone who has studied medicine) as opposed to to taking advice from the homeless dude hanging out in front of the 99-cent store (no offense). |
Yet there are people who regularly visit practitioners of herbal and holistic medicine when they are sick even though those practitioners have no medical training or qualifications and there are others who believe that faith, prayer and the laying on of hands can cure the sick even though those preachers have no medical knowledge. Funny old world isn't it.
MythosDreamLab wrote:
I'll make some more comments as I go through the thread.
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I shall endeavour to ensure that my breath is suitably baited as I wait. 
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Posted: January 02 2014 at 21:16 |
Dean wrote:
MythosDreamLab wrote:
Wow, just found this thread and while I have only read the first and last pages, I echo what the original poster (Dr Wu) stated about being interested in UFO's since the late 60's/early 70's.
What always amazes me when UFO's are addressed on non-UFO sites is the strong opinions by people that have done little or no research. |
It always amuses me the generalisations that some people are prone to make when the topic of UFOs comes up. What passes for research in this subject also raises a smile or two. |
Yeah, "people that have done little or no research" was an unfortunate turn of phrase; never assume anything about a poster's knowledge or background unless you have proof otherwise. And even then don't assume. As this is a site that caters to a music born in the late 1960s/'70s, many members here lived through the UFO pop culture of that same era and grew up reading anything available during that somewhat under-informed period. And some of them are Vulcans.
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MythosDreamLab
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Joined: February 16 2013
Location: So. California
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Points: 16
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Posted: January 02 2014 at 23:55 |
NOPE... NEXT... BRILLIANT...!
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Points: 5898
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 03:11 |
I believe in this UFO phenomenon: 
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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King Only
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2013
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Points: 554
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 06:26 |
Thanks @Dr Wu23 for making the thread. It's a topic I'm interested in too.
For me personally, two of the most convincing incidents that made me believe that UFOs were possibly extraterrestrial craft were the Thomas Mantell incident and the Rendlesham Forest incident.
My father is a retired British Royal Air Force pilot. I asked him several times about UFOs. He said that he had never seen anything himself but he had heard stories from other pilots, both civilian and military, that claimed they had seen UFOs.
One of my coworkers is retired US Air Force but he wasn't a pilot, he was a military airbase manager. He said he never saw any UFOs during his service.
I think the biggest problem with doing 'serious' UFO research is the huge number of con-men and hoaxers out there. There's a lot of dodgy writers and publishing companies making a ton of money from regularly churning out UFO literature.
Edited by King Only - January 03 2014 at 06:56
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 06:57 |
King Only wrote:
Thanks @Dr Wu for making the thread. It's a topic I'm interested in too.
For me personally, two of the most convincing incidents that made me believe that UFOs were possibly extraterrestrial craft were the Thomas Mantell incident and the Rendlesham Forest incident.
My father is a retired British Royal Air Force pilot. I asked him several times about UFOs. He said that he had never seen anything himself but he had heard stories from other pilots, both civilian and military, that claimed they had seen UFOs.
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The Rendlesham Forest incident has been discussed earlier in this thread and there are several plausible counter-explanations for the Mantell incident that do not involve extraterrestrial craft. Since all the evidence points to Cpt Mantell blacking out from hypoxia resulting in the crash and none from a hostile alien encounter the only unknown in the account is the exact nature of the object he was in pursuit of, though the speculation that it was a (then top secret) Skyhook weather balloon does present a plausible explanation. While neither of these accounts can be proven to be of natural causes, they cannot be proven to be an encounter with extraterrestrial craft either - this does not make for a good reason to call them 'convincing incidents'.
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King Only
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2013
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 554
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 07:31 |
dr wu23 wrote:
Regarding the tech itself, again it's impossible to say for certain how advanced such beings could be. They could easily be 100,000 years or more ahead of us (or even a million years) and have discovered laws of physics new to us or learned how to bend them. |
I agree with this.
It's interesting to imagine what human tech will be like in one hundred years, let alone one thousand years or ten thousand years in the future.
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Svetonio
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 08:16 |
 A frescoes from Serbian monastery Visoki Dečani, 1335 AD
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: January 03 2014 at 09:56 |
Svetonio wrote:
A frescoes from Serbian monastery Visoki Dečani, 1335 AD
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An embroidery, Bayeux Cathedral 1476 CE.
..and your point is?
Edited by Dean - January 03 2014 at 09:57
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