jplanet wrote: And man-lampshade isn't extraneous? LOL... Marriage is not only a legal contract, it is a cultural institution. Duh. Gay people want their marriages to be AS special on all levels to what marriage between straight people is now. Again, you are trivializing the rights gay people are fighting for by equating them to marrying lampshades.

Gay marriage is not a cultural institution. It never has been in any society. Heterosexual marriage is a cultural institution, but only because it has been widely practiced and sanctioned for thousands of years. Traditions don't work by the passage of legislation, they work through repetition over long periods of time. If you think that the legalization of gay marriage (which I, again, support) will suddenly include you in a thousand year old institution you are fooling yourself. You have to build your own traditions.

I can say "I want my secret society to be AS special the Freemasons" but it's not going to happen. Not without centuries of hard work, anyway.


Edited by thellama73 - September 13 2010 at 14:32

Edited by The T - September 13 2010 at 16:57

jplanet wrote: Funny how people are only interested in keeping the government out of marriage now that gay people want in. "Oh, we have to let gay people in the club? Come to think of it, we shouldn't even have this club to begin with!" I find it humorous that you think your opinion is absent of the blatant bigotry that is so transparent in your reasoning. I mean, you can't possibly be serious! I'm sure your posts are an April Fool's joke...

Of course, this has already been addressed, but I've been gone a couple of days, so here's my two cents.

I don't think anybody here who opposes marriage as a government institution has come to that conclusion in the way you are suggesting. I personally don't believe in the concept of marriage, either. But as long as people are indeed getting married, everyone should be allowed to do it, yes. Would I rather the government not have anything to do with marriage? Absolutely. But the issues are separate for me; gay marriage should be allowed as long as marriage continues to exist in the present form, because that's equality. But as has been pointed out before, it would solve everybody's problem if the government left marriage alone entirely. Me saying that does not change my opinion than barring gays from marrying is still wrong. Of course it is. 

Wow, T, you got Pat to use an emoticon! Well played indeed.

The T wrote: Rabid wrote: I don't understand the paranoia of showering with gay people......if you're hetrosexual and someone who's homosexual approaches you, is it beyond capability and intelligence to simply say 'no thanks, I'm hetrosexual'?   If you're THAT bothered by it, take a cork into the shower with you.     The only two reasons to be afraid of showering with gay people are:  1) Afraid they might rape you (?!?) 2) Afraid you might like what you see and YOU might find something in your self that you kept hidden.  So the cork is not a good option. For 1) you might take a gun to the shower. For 2) the best idea is to bring vaseline, latex and lotions...

Actually, I was thinking for a few seconds about the whole shower issue and I realize it should be gay men the ones who wouldn't want to shower with attractive straight soldiers... 

The T wrote: thellama73 wrote: Wow, T, you got Pat to use an emoticon! Well played indeed. He laughed, he used an emoticon, he used the word "well" in regards to a post of mine, he even said "sir"...  ...There's hope for us, for all mankind... (or I guess I chose the right day to resume using acid, eating mushrooms and shooting smack.... )

I tried snorting crack but the rocks kept falling out.

Quotes
 
"Number of times Jesus condemns homosexuality: Zero. 
  Number of times he condemns divorce: 4.  Adultery: 9. 
  Number of New Testament verses condemning the rich: 20+.
  Number condemning gay marriage: Zero."
       --  Pastor Fuzz    Link  


Edited by Slartibartfast - September 14 2010 at 04:41

Slartibartfast wrote: The T wrote: thellama73 wrote: Wow, T, you got Pat to use an emoticon! Well played indeed. He laughed, he used an emoticon, he used the word "well" in regards to a post of mine, he even said "sir"...  ...There's hope for us, for all mankind... (or I guess I chose the right day to resume using acid, eating mushrooms and shooting smack.... ) I tried snorting crack but the rocks kept falling out. <font><font size="+1">Quotes          <big style="color: rgb0, 0, 153;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"> "Number of times Jesus condemns homosexuality: Zero.    Number of times he condemns divorce: 4.  Adultery: 9.           Number of New Testament verses condemning the rich: 20+.   Number condemning gay marriage: Zero.

True, the New Testament is very consistent and thorough about its attitude towards the wealthy, funny that you never hear about those verses even here on PA from those that like to quote from the Bible.

Edited by Easy Money - September 14 2010 at 07:31

^ I think you pick and choose what Bible verses are best for you. I can pull up plenty posts in economic/political discussions on PA where you defend the wealthy which is at complete odds with the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. Meanwhile, most if not all verses condemning homosexuality are found in the Old Testament.
Any Bible scholar can tell you the rule of law in the Old Testament was superseded by Jesus' sacrifice in the New Testament.

Easy Money wrote: ^ I think you pick and choose what Bible verses are best for you. I can pull up plenty posts in economic/political discussions on PA where you defend the wealthy which is at complete odds with the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. Meanwhile, most if not all verses condemning homosexuality are found in the Old Testament. Any Bible scholar can tell you the rule of law in the Old Testament was superseded by Jesus' sacrifice in the New Testament.

Did you even read the article I linked to?  I just said the notion of wealth accumulation in the Ancient Near East is very different from that which we in the US have.  It is not wrong to be wealthy- the Bible tells us that in plenty of places.  It is when one's wealth becomes more important than following Christ and obeying his commands that there's a problem.

I defend the wealthy from the government taking what they've earned.  That position is not unbiblical.

If you want to see what the Bible has to say about wealth, here and here.

So if the bolded statement above is true (I'm not saying it is or isn't), then is murder okay now?

And by the way, the Old Testament law never applied to me in the first place.  I'm a Gentile and I've never lived among the Israelites.  Notice how I've never once quoted a passage about homosexuality from the OT law in these discussions.