The American Politics Thread

rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: seems to me you answered your own question While one can be melodramatic and compare where we are at now in this country to Germany of the 30's, even though there are significant differences, it doesn't take much brain power and obviously a working knowledge of history and politics to recognize the fact there are even parallels (and some strong ones at that) to be drawn between the two should be warning signs to any thoughtful American that we should be worried about where we are and still might go. To be clear, I meant that accepting the argument that free speech can be stifled for an ostensibly good cause (under the garb of free speech being dangerous in that context) is dangerous because it can open the door for dangerous characters to appropriate the same stance for their purposes.  Never thought I'd see the day that a mainstream news channel is blocked out of White House press briefings in USA.  Since my knowledge of US history is pretty deficient...is this a first or are people being too alarmist?  At any rate, the Statue of Liberty's got to be shedding copious tears right now. No doubt man.. uncharted water we are in here.  No is not necessarily a first, but a second, but we all know how the Nixon Presidency went down. The greatest threat to the notions of democracy and the Constitution this country had ever seen, and here we are in 2017 back at the same place. So no, people are not being too alarmist.  The very foundations of democracy and constitutional power are at play.  In less than two months Trump has gone to war with the Judiciary, the primary constitutional watchdog of executive power, and of course the press the primary unofficial watchdog of executive power. Why?  Let Americans answer that for themselves. America is due a great deal of soul searching.. and none more than Trump voters. For they are to blame for this.  How quickly they forgot the lesson of the past, and ignored the obvious warning signs SO on display last year during the campaign that this guy was dangerous, had some serious issues.. mentally and ethically. Seriously..  he didn't release his tax returns. Did Trump voters ask themselves once.. even once.. why? What he was hiding? That's why I asked.  So the Great Dick was there too?  Funny, not to claim wisdom in hindsight, but in Trump's acceptance speech on results day, I did hear echoes of Nixon's reference to the silent majority.  Trump however seems to be much more crude in his methods.  What Mr. Modi achieves slyly and silently, he is doing with a full frontal assault and the whole world is watching.  I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing.  It's good in the sense people get to know his true colours very early in the game but it's bad in the sense of the damage he is doing to democratic institutions as you have mentioned.  I heard somebody from Fox News defended CNN and decried the ban?   Better late than never.  I do think CNN has been shading left for some time now, but surely blocking them or any other channel from press briefings is unacceptable and surely everyone realises that.  Because if they don't, there's no hope for democracy.

well... you did ask if there was reason to be alarmist.  Of course there is but the conclusion is not in doubt, thus where all the parallels with the past end.  Trump will lose his fight... Nixon did.. no man is bigger than the system. He can not change it, it doesn't matter if for benevalent or nefarous reasons. We have a 250 year tradition of democracy and seperation of powers.  Yes one can be alarmed.. and Americans should.

But the point I'm hammering home is it not Trump that should be cause of the alarm. He is a sh*t stain slidmark in one's Jockies.  He will either finally discover he can not fight the system and win and thus moderate, or he doesn't and he goes down in flames. It the beauty of the system we have here and there is nothing he can do about it.

the real reason for alarm.. as I've noted quite in my typically unsubtle way.. is not Trump.. it is those that put him there ignoring all the warning signs.  An ignorant uneducated.... HYPER PARTISAN electorate is much more a threat to this country than Trump himself is. He'll be gone.. either by next year by my prediction or in 4 years. However Trump voter remains....


Edited by micky - February 25 2017 at 08:11

rogerthat wrote: micky wrote: well... you did ask if there was reason to be alarmist.  Of course there is but the conclusion is not in doubt, thus where all the parallels with the past end.  Trump will lose his fight... Nixon did.. no man is bigger than the system. He can not change it, it doesn't matter if for benevalent or nefarous reasons. We have a 250 year tradition of democracy and seperation of powers.  Yes one can be alarmed.. and Americans should. But the point I'm hammering home is it not Trump that should be cause of the alarm. He is a sh*t stain slidmark in one's Jockies.  He will either finally discover he can not fight the system and win and thus moderate, or he doesn't and he goes down in flames. It the beauty of the system we have here and there is nothing he can do about it. the real reason for alarm.. as I've noted quite in my typically unsubtle way.. is not Trump.. it is those that put him there ignoring all the warning signs.  An ignorant uneducated.... HYPER PARTISAN electorate is much more a theat to democracy than Trump himself is. Agreed fully.  My assessment, not to speculate darkly, is that if Trump goes too far, he will either get impeached or assassinated.   But the bigger worry is the lack of support for democracy among, um, the voters to whom it matters most.  Yes, the decisions of such an electorate will in any case cripple the functioning of democracy owing to the breakdown of bipartisan co-operation.  Hyper partisanship is very much in fashion nowadays but some of the great reforms in govt have often been made possible by a polity that was prepared to join hands for a good cause rather than blindly oppose each other.  In India, the most important reforms were in fact carried out by a coalition govt where the single largest party did not have sufficient numbers to constitute a majority.  This happened only 26 years back, which is not such a long time in history, but it feels like a very long time ago.  It wouldn't happen today.

yeah.. as I noted last night. At first I blew off the musings of those who wondered if Trump would last until 2020.  See here's the kicker.... the judidicary?  Pretty well covered... the press?  oh yeah baby.. you bet your sweet ass that is being covered. What is not perhaps is his subtle 3rd war and more than the other two.. this one could well get him impeached... if he does have something to hide and personally I think the ones wearing the tin foil hats are the ones that think he DOES NOT have something big he is hiding.

that 3rd war? Less well known perhaps. The Washington bureaucracy.. a professional apolitical establishment that Trump is well on his way to completely alienating.  Leaks?  We haven't seen nothing yet , and whatever he is hiding...  well put it this way.. if he is..  it will see the light of day and if it is Russian money as many suspect. He is gone...  doesn't matter if the GOP still holds the reigns of Legislative power.. that comes out he is toast in 2020. He likely is already due to doing what Hillary couldn't and mobilizing and energizing the apathetic.. but much more numerous Democratic Party.

Congress will impeach him for many reasons, Pence is much more their kind and they'll get rid of Trump to try to save their legislative asses in 2018/2020 and try to have a fighting chance in the next Presidential election.

he does have the potential to destroy that party... and they knew it that is why the establishment never fully backed him. he was completely unfit, both in experience and temperment and with some serious ethnical issues hanging over him. They knew it...  of course more than half the country knew it... just Trump voter ignored the warning signs along with opportunist politicians or the simply wacko nativist racist far alt-right and dead-end career political types like Pence who was going down in flames in his own state and took the offer of VP that no one else wanted.

There is no loyalty to Trump..only to the Republican brand name. Trust me Madon..  they already know he is damaging it but obviously they are stuck with him..however if they have a chance..if he continues down this path and/or ties to Russia are proven... they will get rid of him. They are already worrying about the 2018 mid terms ...

It seems old Trump has got himself into a war with the NY Times that I'm quite sure will sink him. Calling the Times and CNN fake news was like waving a red flag. Now, watch these bulls charge.

oh, and meanwhile this happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/25/who-is-nils-bildt-swedish-national-security-advisor-interviewed-by-fox-news-is-a-mystery-to-swedes/?utm_term=.94cb7c446a82

well done, Fox News

So Perez takes the DNC chair... disappointed yet encouraged.  I saw who backed him and they know ..better than anyone. In fact I read they warned Hillary about the pitfalls of her campaign strategy.  So there is hope lesson were learned.

micky wrote: BaldJean wrote: I am much more skeptical about the self-healing capabilities of the system. maybe if everything ran normally, but who is to know it will? any extraordinary incident might tip the scales in Trump's direction. what I have in mind is an incident like the Reichstagsbrand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire). some faked terrorist attack on a facility of high symbolic character, let's for example say the statue of liberty. such an incident would make many people think that Trump was right all along and would lead to a significant increase of his popularity. just look at what happened after 9/11. most of the American people were screaming for revenge, and the few people who spoke out against rushed action were denounced as traitors or as being in cahoots with the attackers. I remember all too well how Friede and I were called "Nazis" on forums we posted on because we took the position that a thorough investigation should happen instead of just going to war against Iraq. I predict that within the next three months, but maybe sooner, such an incident will happen, and I pray to the Goddess that this prediction turns out to be false oh christ Jean.  I'll piss all over Trump.. vomit on his supporters... but that is a long way from calling them un-american.. f**king traitors. There are still people here that think 9-11 was an inside job.. never will buy that.  Yes they are dangerous, idiots and all that..with disproven ineffective and simply outdated and theories born in some alternative universe but I'd find it hard to Trump or any his minions.. even  right wing kukos like Bannon would commit treason. Come on man...  anyhow..I'm on record so I'll eat crow as did in November if wrong... but you know.. if it comes to pass.... I'll have and we'll all have bigger problems than being wrong. All the more reason to piss on Trump voters

in my opinion the Trump administration is capable of anything. I'd rather be on the record to have been wrong about this than to have been silent about the warning signs (and there are many). if it does not happen all the better, but I will continue my Cassandra calls. and remember: it was Cassandra's curse that no-one ever believed her prophecies.

as to 9-11: I don't know if it was an inside job, but I am certain the official version is not the truth. the twin towers and WTC-7 collapse due to the intensity of the flames, but miraculously the passport of Mohamed Atta escapes the fiery inferno to be found by investigators - pull the other one


Edited by BaldJean - February 25 2017 at 16:59

BaldJean wrote: as to 9-11: I don't know if it was an inside job, but I am certain the official version is not the truth. the twin towers and WTC-7 collapse due to the intensity of the flames, but miraculously the passport of Mohamed Atta escapes the fiery inferno to be found by investigators - pull the other one

The official version could not be the truth with all the chemical evidence of high-explosives, but that could indicate something no one has suggested; like explosives planted on the planes, which though extraordinary, doesn't necessarily indicate a domestic conspiracy or an inside job.   It could just indicate very smart terrorists.

Combining the events of 9/11, the Republican administration's tardy hunt for Osama while in the meantime bombing the hell out Afghanistan and Iraq, and Rumsfeld's infamous "sh*t happens" excuse, a conspiracy to fuel pro-war fervour cannot be completely ruled out imo.  But absent evidence, I would not insist that that is what happened and am forced to accept the official version.  Journalist Dave McGowan was skeptical of 9/11 from the start.  He also wrote a very interesting book on the Laurel Canyon connection in rock.  I wouldn't quite call him crazy even if he was quite possibly wrong about 9/11.

Edited by rogerthat - February 25 2017 at 21:26

I was in a used bookstore yesterday where I live in Fort Erie ( I managed to find a copy of Roger Dean Views in pretty good shape for $15 CAN ! ) There was an American  lady and her kids raving about how Trump is going to sort out the planet and kick ass and there were Canadians agreeing with her all the way. I think that this anti-trump sentiment is confined to outspoken people who just want to jump on the bandwagon. As far as I can see it is business as usual man. We are not living in the 1800s or 1960s. We're living in the 21st century. American politics and foreign  policy will always be f**ked up.I don't know why people just don't deal with it? I think we should be more worried about that lunatic kid  in North Korea