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Prog_Traveller 
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 Topic: Why not more ratings for Gentle Giant albums?
Posted: November 30 2013 at 19:45 |
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Is it just me or does it seem odd to others on here that Gentle Giant who are often considered part of the big five or big six only have one album on here with more than 1,000 ratings and only one with more than 900 ratings. Sorry I just don't get it. Porcupine Tree have more higher rated albums it seems. I'm surprised ELP have more higher rated albums(as does Marillion). My only explanation is that maybe Gentle Giant is a band that has gone under the radar of many of the younger prog fans on here. They are an extremely important band and should be in every prog fans collection. I think they are at least as good as King Crimson or ELP(if not better). So get off your lazy butts you young whipper snappers and buy some Gentle Giant!!!! Start with Free Hand or Octopus. You won't be disappointed!!!
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Olape
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 20:24 |
I totally agree with Prog_Traveller!
The first seven albums of Gentle Giant are awesome and still blow my mind away after listening them for almost 25 years. And what can we say about the gigs on Giant on the Box?
I don't understand why there is none Gentle Giant album among the top 30 or even among the top 15! 
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Prog_Traveller
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 20:29 |
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Like I said I really think the younger fans missed the boat on this band. That is to say they somehow haven't discovered them as much as other bands. Bands like the Mars Volta or Porcupine Tree or Dream Theater or whoever came along when they could be visible to the younger fans. Yes and Genesis got airplay on radio and still do. Gentle Giant haven't had the exposure of those bands. Plus Gentle Giant broke up in 1980 and I think that's a big part of it right there. They have had a lot of reissues but no new proper albums since Civilian. I really first heard about them because of my ex stepmother's brother who was a musician and a dj. He said something like "well if you like King Crimson and the prog rock stuff you need to check out this band called Gentle Giant" which I eventually did. I didn't get them at first but they grew on me. Octopus was one of the first ones and because of that it might be my favorite from them.
Edited by Prog_Traveller - November 30 2013 at 20:30
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Horizons
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 21:00 |
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They're an acquired taste, and a lot of time aren't considered big six but that's another story.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Prog_Traveller
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 21:16 |
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Acquired taste? Yeah maybe to some degree but they are listed as eclectic prog and not avant prog. They aren't as out there as many other bands on here. I still say the younger fans haven't been exposed to them.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 21:34 |
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Let's just say that GG is one of Prog Rock's best kept secrets. Those willing to discover their albums will be in for many surprises. FANTASTIC band !!
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madmike
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 22:13 |
 Prog_Traveller wrote:
Acquired taste? Yeah maybe to some degree but they are listed as eclectic prog and not avant prog. They aren't as out there as many other bands on here. I still say the younger fans haven't been exposed to them.
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I'd agree with that assessment. I mean, they're not a band that most prog fans my age (30) have a great deal of familiarity with (oddly enough, even less so than some other similarly situated bands in the 70s like Renaissance or VDGG), but those that are familiar with them tend to smile approvingly when I mention that they're one of my favorite bands from the era.
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NotAProghead
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 22:32 |
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I think GG is kinda love-or-hate it thing.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Prog_Traveller
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Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 22:35 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
Let's just say that GG is one of Prog Rock's best kept secrets. Those willing to discover their albums will be in for many surprises. FANTASTIC band !! |
Best kept secrets? Are you kidding me? One of music's best kept secrets maybe. For a long time they were one of the most important prog bands and at the forefront of the so called second tier or maybe somewhere between first and second tier. Usually they are ranked just behind King Crimson. But then when all the kiddies discovered prog in the past decade they got buried under the carpet or something. Or maybe it's just this particular prog site that gives the impression that they are less important and less popular than they really are.
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Prog_Traveller
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 22:41 |
madmike wrote:
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Acquired taste? Yeah maybe to some degree but they are listed as eclectic prog and not avant prog. They aren't as out there as many other bands on here. I still say the younger fans haven't been exposed to them.
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I'd agree with that assessment. I mean, they're not a band that most prog fans my age (30) have a great deal of familiarity with (oddly enough, even less so than some other similarly situated bands in the 70s like Renaissance or VDGG), but those that are familiar with them tend to smile approvingly when I mention that they're one of my favorite bands from the era. |
Yeah, I think at least as far as this site goes they have been sort of lost in time. I think a big part of that is because they broke up in 1980 where as bands such as Focus, Renaissance, VDGG, Nektar, Camel and even Caravan have continued at least a little bit beyond 1980. However, even some of those bands I just mentioned have been neglected by the younger fans I'm afraid. I think how it goes on here is that when after the kiddies wipe their faces after eating their sugar frosted flakes at the high chair and throw the teddy bear down and look at the top thirty or so on here those are the albums that they run off with their piggy bank money to buy and I think GG are often not up there on that list except for Octopus which is admittedly a really great album. But yeah for some reason VDGG, Camel and Renaissance are all more respected than GG is around here for whatever reason(at least among the younger fans). I admit they aren't for everyone but they certainly aren't any weirder or harder to get into than Frank Zappa, VDGG or Magma.
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The.Crimson.King
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Posted: November 30 2013 at 23:07 |
Gentle Giant was the first prog band I ever saw (July 76) and they blew me away...of course Yes came on 20 minutes later and blew me even further away 
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Wafflesyrup
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 03:45 |
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24 years of age here. Love Gentle Giant just as much as I do the rest if not more-so in areas. They really are something else.
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Hercules
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 03:46 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem odd to others on here that Gentle Giant who are often considered part of the big five or big six only have one album on here with more than 1,000 ratings and only one with more than 900 ratings. Sorry I just don't get it. Porcupine Tree have more higher rated albums it seems. I'm surprised ELP have more higher rated albums(as does Marillion). My only explanation is that maybe Gentle Giant is a band that has gone under the radar of many of the younger prog fans on here. They are an extremely important band and should be in every prog fans collection. I think they are at least as good as King Crimson or ELP(if not better). So get off your lazy butts you young whipper snappers and buy some Gentle Giant!!!! Start with Free Hand or Octopus. You won't be disappointed!!!
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You may love GG (as I now do, after disliking/not appreciating them for 30 years) but GG were never more than a 3rd division band in the 70s in terms of following. (VDGG are another band that seem much more liked now than in their heyday; only in Italy were they anything more than a cult band in the 70s). I saw GG on tour in 1976 and the hall was only half full; their gigs often didn't sell out.
I do agree that, despite the challenges they offer on first hearing, they are essential listening and a truly wonderful band.
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rogerthat
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 04:42 |
I am one of the kiddies referred to somewhat condescendingly (although in good humour I assume) in an earlier post and I can tell you that for whatever reason, youngsters getting into prog are - if they do get beyond prog metal and into 70s prog - directed to Yes/Genesis/ELP/KC/Rush/Tull. Not counting Floyd whose appeal is broader than any of these bands and have fans who don't really like prog rock otherwise. Neither VDGG nor Gentle Giant get into that club, though Camel somehow get a lot of props. That's probably down to Mike Akerfeldt apparently crediting them as an influence, idk. I came to know of both VDGG and GG only through progarchives. And thereafter it took some persuasion to get the few prog-loving friends I know outside PA to give GG a fair shot.
I am afraid the goofiness of Shulman's vocal delivery doesn't help matters at all. What could be stylish, groovy prog-funk becomes inadvertent comic relief at times. The first impression this creates can be very hard to get past and only those who hang on (or those lucky ones who connect the very first time) progress to fandom. Consider that most newbs only hear Court from the KC albums so they are blissfully unaware of how demanding KC can get on some albums. Hence, they attribute GG's weirdness to poor songwriting initially until they come to terms with what was attempted in the music.
Still, why Yes/Genesis/ELP are at the centre of attention even in the PA forum, let alone the website or other websites/magazines, cannot be accounted for only by the difficulty of new prog rock fans in assimilating their work. If they are supposed to be part of the Big Six, they ought to have a greater following among older fans as well and I am not sure that is the case. Maybe the older fans should share some of the blame.  |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 11:05 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem odd to others on here that Gentle Giant who are often considered part of the big five or big six only have one album on here with more than 1,000 ratings and only one with more than 900 ratings. Sorry I just don't get it. Porcupine Tree have more higher rated albums it seems.
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This is one of the reasons why I wanted to have the band list, rather than individual records on those rating things, so it would elevate the rankings a bit better, and stop the preference side of things a bit more, but I think the board is afraid that if you take it away from the "pop", "top ten" idea of things, that most people will leave, because no one agrees with them!
Gentle Giant, however is VERY MUCH an "ACQUIRED TASTE" to borrow one of their terms and is very difficult on the untrained ear that has only heard MELODY used within a top of the pops and top ten style! And on top of it, they are uncompromising to the point of being so distant that many people end up feeling alienated by it.
But it is an insanely amazing amount of music, even though it is not one of my favorites, it is a band that I have tremendous respect for musically ... be it all inventive and just off the wall as Gary Green has suggested many times, or simply just composed, which is not likely to be when it is so wide and apart in the earlier albums.
I have suggested that most metal folks can't listen to GG and appreciate the musicianship behind it. But then, there are a lot of us that love GG, and hate the Metal side of things because it is formulaic and based on loudness and a sound effect only! This is changing lately with some metal bands doing some nice stuff underneath it all.
History, has shown the GG deserves a lot more respect and understanding than we are willing to give it, as a whole, not just as one group of folks, but all of us here.
Edited by moshkito - December 03 2013 at 08:04
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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schizoidman
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 11:18 |
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GG is a band that, for whatever reason, I never felt interested in. I will try to lend an ear to their stuff soon.
Cheers!
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Making the useless useful 24/7.
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zravkapt
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 11:46 |
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GG are very popular here on PA with all age groups. Not bad for a group who only had a cult following during the 1970s. I wish half the prog bands I listen to had half the ratings GG do.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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richardh
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Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 13:04 |
Said before that Gentle Giant never had a specific thing that could project them beyond their music.
ELP had the keyboard thing Genesis had the arty thing Yes had the cosmic thing Floyd had the spacey thing
GG were a bunch of very anal guys but that's not a good thing to help sell the music. They couldn't even bother with a decent album cover. ELP as a group went to Switzerland to procure their album cover for BSS personally from HR Giger. Gentle Giant would never have done that.Way beneath them intellectually. They were ultra serious musicians the very epitomy of a self conscious prog band so no wonder they flew under the radar.
I only started collecting their music about 10-15 years and thankfully this forum has enlightened me to how good they are. I'm catching up like no doubt many others are as well.
Edited by richardh - December 01 2013 at 13:05
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 13:19 |
For me they are a casual listen. I do agree they are an acquired taste, I don't think you just start listening to GG and fall in love.....Similar to VdGG and in some cases for me KC. I was not a big KC fan growing up, only recently have I begun to enjoy their music.......Maybe in 20yrs I will begin to enjoy Gentle Giant  ....but not sure I can get past those album covers 
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Prog_Traveller
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Posted: December 01 2013 at 14:01 |
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I don't agree with Gentle Giant being a "third division" band whatever that means. Who are in the first two divisions? If that is true then YES is a second division band because they weren't as big as Pink Floyd or Genesis.
I don't agree entirely with the album cover criticisms either. They had covers done by Roger Dean(although his cover for "Octopus" didn't appear on the US version)and George Underwood. While they aren't that great still they could be worse. Anyway the music is the most important thing isn't it? You can't judge a book by it's cover and you can't judge an album by it's cover either.
Edited by Prog_Traveller - December 01 2013 at 14:06
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Why not more ratings for Gentle Giant albums?
